John F. Kerry

look at this, i literally couldnt believe what i was seeing and hearing.

this is free heathcare?!!!
WTF?

John F. Kerry

all things considered , can any of you really watch this and not be absolutely horrified at it?

verklingen

both times ive gone to a hospital "emergency room" i've ended up waiting hours. in fact one of my testicles died doing so, as i sat in excruciating pain that's impossible to describe accurately. is it good or something that that would have happened in canada too? i guess i don't get your point in posting this.

__________________

“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.”

Ego Tripping

J, you never were a democrat to begin with.

I got 20 seconds into the video and realized how incredibly biased it is and the guy's voice makes it clear he's going to be sarcastic and derogatory. And the government is not taking over the private sector. Just the same poison they right keeps feeding you and you're eating it up with a gigantic spoon. And Canadians aren't flocking here in mass, if you haven't noticed.

And as Verk said, our system has the same kind of wait time except it cost TONS more to run.

And calling it Stalin Care? Please. Now you're just using the same shock tactics Fox News uses...oh wait....

__________________

John F. Kerry

its pretty funny to see the responses of you ideologues, just watch the vid.

its not sarcastic or stupid, he goes thru the paces of being a canadian health care patient and sees all the shortcomings of it- i cant imagine why you wouldnt want to watch it or why you would dismiss it out of hand

Ego Tripping

I watched it...didn't change my mind. He brings up some good points, but if I had the time I could dig up equivalent videos showing a) how much more broken our system is than that and b) evidence that shows their system works, at least better than ours does.

And nobody said we're adopting Canada's healthcare plan to begin with. We're obviously going the way of a hybrid system...something you don't care about cooperating and helping create, you (like most Republicans) just offer resistance to any kind of change or progress through scare tactics such as these. Sorry dude, it's not working. And Obama isn't a Socialist like the video not so subtly insinuated, so that alone shows his bias and misinformation.

__________________

Ego Tripping

And it figures you're trying to make the Obama Admin. look as horrible and atrociously incompetent as the Bush Admin., even to the point of trying to equate trying to bring healthcare to the average american, to the clear involvement that the Bush Admin. had with 9/11. And that's just sad to see you scraping so hard.

__________________

John F. Kerry

dude just watch the vid im not trying to do anything.

i dont think that dude was sarcastic either. at least that wasnt the main point of the vid.

he made a documentary of what a person in a socialized healthcare system experiences - he didnt do it like michael more going in with big cameras and shit he did it with undercover footage to show what it was really like

what is it really like? according to this vid and the actual doctors and clinics he went to?

they tell u to wait for hours and hours, they recomend if you want good care to go to the private clinic where a test costs 900 bucks, they sit and wait for 6 hours before leaving the hospital, they find out that free clinics SUCK,

im not doing this to piss people off, on the contrary, i want people to realize that they will be giving up THEIR GOOD HEALTCARE, and exchanging it for a system that is perhaps a bit more "fair" but everyone is "fairly" able to wait for weeks at a time and get shitty care. thats not what i want, and i dont think its what you want.


if you were my friend, i would show you this video as a favor to make you understand at least how in this dudes experience the healthcare system in canada is dangerous and sub par-

its laudable to get everyone covered by health insurance, but to turn america into what i saw in this vid would be not just outrageous but horrible.

you seem to think i have an ulterior motive. my only motive is exposing what a bait and swtich this program is and how it will result in SHITTY CARE FOR ME AND YOU!

John F. Kerry

we have a lot of canadians on here- i see canuck wisdom browsing the thread as we speak- care to offer some observations about whether you feel this video is unfair or more accurately portrays the shortcommings of socialized health care?

i dont know, i want to know . so tell me.

John F. Kerry

the right wing or fox news isnt telling me what i saw in this video, my eyes and ears are.

if you want to refute it then your not doing a very good job by making ad hominem attacks.

Canuck Wisdom

I know Michael Moore said so, but no canadian ever said we had some sort of miracle system. However, it is just, and a vast majority of canadians support the idea of universal healthcare, its like a national religion, even in the face of powerful interest groups lobbying government and public opinion towards private.

We all pay, we all get covered.

This guy seems to have a bias going into this. I assume in order to make his point about not nationalizing healthcare (I havnt finished the vid yet).

I dont really want to get into your (american) healthcare debate because I dont know what would work best for you, or what is being proposed. His portrayal of wait times in hospitals is accurate. I've never had much of a problem with clinics though, and I have a family doctor that I can see pretty easily. We do have a shortage of doctors though, but changing immigration laws would solve that.

A couple other issues with cnd healthcare too: Its a federal/provincial split so although there is national funding healthcare is somewhat different from province to province. And its quite possible, though speculative, we would have a much better healthcare system if powerful countries like the USA and Britain hadnt brought in neo-liberal reforms and forced middle power countries like canada to conform and compete for investment (disciplinary capital) and the (democratically accountable and legitimate) state had the power to do what it needs to to make social programs work.

__________________
-Knowitall A&P type-

Ego Tripping

/thread.

Thanks Canuck.

__________________

John F. Kerry

ego man i dont wanna censor you and you can say whatever you want, but you sure seem to have a strong view on this that has nothing to do with the video.

im just asking u to think about whether what u think u want will result in something that you actually want. and why u think it will in the first place.

Ego Tripping

True reform is going to take time and while the plan proposed isn't perfect, it's a great start and it needs to happen. The idea that the government is going to take over the private sector is baseless fear to keep us in the status quo, lining the pockets of many doctors and practices.

The other part that is being reformed is our view on what true health is in the first place. This bill also contains lots of progressive measures for preventative health care, which is by far the most important thing we need. Fixing the small problems so the big problems aren't such...well, big problems. My girlfriend is a holistic health practitioner, so she has strong views as well and I can't help by get invigorated by what she's experienced in the current health care system.

We're not becoming Canada or Europe, or Communists or Socialists. We're merely taking steps to improve the domestic lifestyle of the average American. We have a long way to go, but we'd get there a lot faster if people like you spent as much time as you do ridiculing every proposal to come up with a logical, bipartisan and progressive plan that could be presented with civility...instead of invoking the 'socialist ghost' scare tactics, as this "informative" video shows.

__________________

verklingen

no shit! check this out: Nearly 10 percent of health spending for obesity - Health care- msnbc.com

__________________

“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.”

Being

I think this is the point that most GOP and Tea Party fanatics are ignoring.


It has been said so many times that the current health care proposal is not final and needs to be refined. But by continually nay saying, using scare tactics, etc and not coming up with a solution yourselves, these crowds are simply bitching. Not helping a country, but bitching because they have interest groups to please, whether it be to try and gain some ground for the GOP after loosing an election, or others who just wish to reap the cash benefits.


Get over it and start helping.

__________________
R.I.P. Gov

Canuck Wisdom

Thumbs-up to preventative healthcare.

But watch out, it might involve limiting your freedom!!!! Such as, "Noooooooo, I can't only serve trans-fats anymore!!!! I'll have to come up with equally delicious healthy alternatives!!!"

__________________
-Knowitall A&P type-

scottishbastard

Of course this video is biased. But once again I must ask why is it when there is liberal bias it's called "unbiased"? Anyways. Im half canuck, I can tell you first hand socialized medecine in canda sucks ass.

__________________


Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do
No matter what I ask of you
You think you hold the high hand
I've got my doubts
I come from Chino where the asphalt sprouts
.....

And even if I have to go to Claremont
Well I guess I'll just have to go to Claremont
Let me go
Let me lie low

Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do
No matter what I ask of you
And you send your dark messengers to tempt me
I come from Chino so all your threats are empty

- the mountain goats

scottishbastard

I would like to see how many socialist things Obama must do before people stop getting so offended when he's called a socialist. I dont believe he's a socialist, just like I don't believe Bush is a republican. In the u.s. we have these bastard political hybrids like Left wing-socialist-fascists, or compassionate conservatives, or simply republicans and democrats. We don't run our politics of logic or a set of ideals, we run them off whatever the easiest response to a crisis is. A democrat will quickly stomp on the civil rights of one group to appease the majority, and a republican will quickly support gay rights if it pleases the majority.
Anyone who thinks the right or the left have any sort of nobility is nuts or misinformed. The platform they run off of, what they write in their books, and what they do are almost always different things.
Look at AH-NOLD...The wonderful governer of my state. Or Anthony Adams. They ran off of an anti tax platform but have done more to raise taxes than our last governer (David/Gumby - Democrat). They were instrumental in trying to pass prop 1A.

Obama may not be a socialist, but he is enacting large parts of socialism to appease the majority. I'd say that's worse than an outright socialist.

__________________


Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do
No matter what I ask of you
You think you hold the high hand
I've got my doubts
I come from Chino where the asphalt sprouts
.....

And even if I have to go to Claremont
Well I guess I'll just have to go to Claremont
Let me go
Let me lie low

Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do
No matter what I ask of you
And you send your dark messengers to tempt me
I come from Chino so all your threats are empty

- the mountain goats

stoneric

By other liberals maybe.