scottishbastard

I live in California, Los Angeles to be specific. I've seen the medical and recreational cannabis scene develop rapidly in recent years. I was too young when prop 215 was passed, but was well into getting stoned when SB420 took the medical marijuana community to new heights. I've had a "recomendation" since 2003 and about a year ago saw them begin to tax medical marijuana.
Now in these bad economic times not just the State/City but the entire country has been talking about legalizing pot because of A)The cost of the war on drugs and B)The revenue which could be gained.

Now while I'm totally for stopping the war on drugs, I have a strong moral dilemma as far as taxation and regulation. Firstly I have a problem with taxing things like marijuana and cigarettes and alcohol and whatnot. But what my real beef is, is them regulating it. Everyone talks about the quality control and the price going down, but is this correct?
In Canada when they started the government supply of medical marijuana which was carefully regulated, tons of people were complaining that it was weak (low-mid grade) cannabis that was ground up into shake.
And as far as prices go, it doesn't seem like the regulation and taxation of any other substance has made a difference in price (tobacco, alcohol, prescription drugs, and in other countries prescription herbs).

And the final problem I have with taxation and regulation of cannabis is that black market activity greatly cripples the white market on various fronts. Whether you're against the capitalist system, or for a free market weakening the white market is a usefull tool (i.e. Counter economics).

Yeah sometimes I can't get weed easily, and sometimes the quality is randomized, but that's part of smoking. If it was completely legalized and not taxed then the people in the black market who control it now would become legitimate sales people. The quality would probably get better or stay the same because A) They wouldn't have to be so secretive when taking care of plants and B) Because there would be more open competition between vendors.

I know this isn't a popular opinion, but I'm not saying don't legalize marijuana. I'm saying keep the government's filthy paws off of it.

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Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do
No matter what I ask of you
You think you hold the high hand
I've got my doubts
I come from Chino where the asphalt sprouts
.....

And even if I have to go to Claremont
Well I guess I'll just have to go to Claremont
Let me go
Let me lie low

Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do
No matter what I ask of you
And you send your dark messengers to tempt me
I come from Chino so all your threats are empty

- the mountain goats

scottishbastard

"If you get into bed with government, you better expect more than a good night's sleep" - Ronald Regan

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Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do
No matter what I ask of you
You think you hold the high hand
I've got my doubts
I come from Chino where the asphalt sprouts
.....

And even if I have to go to Claremont
Well I guess I'll just have to go to Claremont
Let me go
Let me lie low

Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do
No matter what I ask of you
And you send your dark messengers to tempt me
I come from Chino so all your threats are empty

- the mountain goats

bizong

"The best government is that which governs least" - Henry David

stoneric

It won't be legalized UNLESS the government can get it's filthy paws on it.

verklingen

cynics. . .

you're looking at it the wrong way. drugs/cannabis being illegal at all is a symptom of oppression, and one which is having a hard time staying on it's feet in today's world (look at mexico). even if the establishment merely bandages the symptom over by legalizing drug use and regulating it, regulation is a symptom indicative of the very same ailment and will thus be ousted by the same social pressures.

there's much more urgency in this situation and a much greater will for something better than you zany cynics give us credit for. at home and internationally, the situations which poke and prod us toward peace, justice, progress and sustainability are myriad. the world is literally filled with them, and there's got to be a breaking point. i think we're approaching that critical mass, and how we adapt to relieve the pressure will decide whether our civilization will start working right or go the way of our ancestors. because we sure as hell can't afford to keep pussy-footing around it like this, and even the establishment will wise up once they realize how they're threatening their very livelihood by keeping it up.

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“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.”

scottishbastard

But why is it always us who has to fold? We're not doing anything wrong. Why should we have to put up with the government's price and quality control for the sake of legalization? That seems worse to me. I rather have marijuana be semi-affordable/high grade and illegal, than taxed to hell and whatever quality they deem fit simply to not get arrested.

The problem here is anyone thinking that it's the government's job to baby us. They have no right to tell us if we can use a plant for any purpose, nor do they have the right to tax it or control the quality. How is it fair for them to say "Unless we control it and profit from it, you'll go to jail for it". We can't keep folding to this type of tyranny. The government is a bunch of greedy bullies, and we shouldn't encourage this kind of behavior.

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Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do
No matter what I ask of you
You think you hold the high hand
I've got my doubts
I come from Chino where the asphalt sprouts
.....

And even if I have to go to Claremont
Well I guess I'll just have to go to Claremont
Let me go
Let me lie low

Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do
No matter what I ask of you
And you send your dark messengers to tempt me
I come from Chino so all your threats are empty

- the mountain goats

Grieves

Old money would never let that shift of money and influence happen...

Sadly old money still holds majority ownership of corporations and gov'ment...

Unless we find a public backer with old money ties/influence than the mindset will never shift...We are making strides, though....

It's the same reason alternative energy is strictly on the small, independent level...Too much change even for the betterment of society is not acceptable if it rocks the boat too much...

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John F. Kerry

if it was legal then people could grow their own . a summer garden right next to the tomatoes would provide all a normal person would need for the year-

its basically my single biggest dream in this life besides like personal goals and dreams.

Being

complaining about the quality and price, especially quality is the complete wrong details to be focused on, and in my opinion, a tad bit of a spoiled persons mindset.


either way in the end, we would control the market anyways, as the massive community of pot smokers purchasing power would have a direct effect on what is produced and the price, as the black market would still be available.

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R.I.P. Gov

kitch

apparently in MA we're supposed to have active tax stamps, $3 a gram, but the cops aren't even writing many tickets, and if they do the bill didn't actually put any enforcement in place to make people pay. I remember when it was a crime to smoke pot, seems like a million years ago though.

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kamikazi89

deregulation is the way to go, particulary when it comes to farmers.. many textiles crops are subsidized anyway so that's a losing battle near term and medicine shouldn't be taxed anyway..and..in my opinion...

the tax stamp has got to go, that just writing a parking ticket

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katie west is the best

stoneric

If it's decriminalized, who supplies it? You can magically have it but where it comes from will still be a crime. Does law enforcement all of a sudden ignore dealers? That's basically all they are after now.

scottishbastard

Absolutely...

And as to what J-wonder said about a summer garden...Do you really think the government will let us grow cannabis? Even if it's legal do you think they won't regulate the system in some sneaky way (i.e. Anslinger type shadiness) to make it almost impossible for the common man to grow his own?
Look at tobacco or industrial hemp. These markets are controlled by a select few. It's not like you can grow tobacco in your back yard.
And has the quality or price of tobacco improved because of regulation/taxation? I would say no. It's usually full of chemicals and very expensive. I will site Canada's medical marijuana supply again as an example of low quality.

And I believe recently there was a law passed saying that if you grow ANY kind of food you must first get permission because of "health concerns". Yet another way for the government to take away our self reliance.

I think legalization would only hurt marijuana smokers in the end.

__________________


Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do
No matter what I ask of you
You think you hold the high hand
I've got my doubts
I come from Chino where the asphalt sprouts
.....

And even if I have to go to Claremont
Well I guess I'll just have to go to Claremont
Let me go
Let me lie low

Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do
No matter what I ask of you
And you send your dark messengers to tempt me
I come from Chino so all your threats are empty

- the mountain goats

kamikazi89

the amish grow tobacco in their backyards

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katie west is the best

stoneric

Once it became legal it would be impossible for them to stop us. They can't do it now. Selling it would be another thing.

stoneric

And if I were growing it in my back yard for personal use I couldn't imagine getting fucked with.

kamikazi89

no one fucks with the amish and gets away with it

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katie west is the best

scottishbastard

There's independent production of it now. The black market is the best market. I don't know about the rest of the country, but Los Angeles has seen a huge spike in quality and quantitiy of cannabis in the last 8 years.

Isn't the reason the Amish can grow tobacco some religious protection? Or is it just that they're so far out in the boonies no one cares?
I'm pretty sure either way, if they legalized marijuana and it was sold "through" the government (be it government shops, or just taxed and regulated like cigarettes) that you wouldn't be allowed to grow in your back yard. They'd probably tighten up laws about seeds, and keep fertile seeds from entering the product. Maybe if you got some seeds and moved to the middle of an amish colony or an indian reservation, but I doubt you'd be able to do it here in a place like Los Angeles.

And I'm sure if they did let you grow it they would put a limit on it, like 8 plants or something. What if you truly need more? They wouldn't let you grow anyways, because it would be competing with them, and they don't like that one bit.

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Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do
No matter what I ask of you
You think you hold the high hand
I've got my doubts
I come from Chino where the asphalt sprouts
.....

And even if I have to go to Claremont
Well I guess I'll just have to go to Claremont
Let me go
Let me lie low

Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do
No matter what I ask of you
And you send your dark messengers to tempt me
I come from Chino so all your threats are empty

- the mountain goats

stoneric

So the laws will be tightened up after weed is made legal? I see. You speculate a shitload and none of it makes any sense. If you make something legal the means of control go out the fucking window.

kamikazi89

the amish don't grow tobacco for religious reason(they don't even smoke)..you b confusing them w/ rastas

people already grow their own legally

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katie west is the best