Kompressor

I simply would like to know your sources because a lot of what you say are assumptions/predictions that so far haven't been backed up by anything other than your own words. If it is truth, especially from google news, it shouldn't be too hard to find because I haven't heard of some of the things you have said.

You want a real discussion but then don't want to take it seriously. When someone can refute your claims, you want their sources, but don't want to provide your own because 'it's yahooka.'

I'm sorry if I can't just take just your word for the 'facts' you are providing.

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Think like a man of action, act like a man of thought. -H. Bergson

Being

show some evidence that it will, other than fear conspiracy theories.
so where is your solution? didn't think so. still, just sounds like conspiracy theories. you have no facts or evidence to back yourself up. You really should do some research on the profit margins, and prices of healthcare and medicines here compared to other countries.


If you can convince me, with facts instead of conspiracy theories and fear mongering, that would be great

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R.I.P. Gov

DdC

Big Money Pulling the Strings of Protests
videocafe Heather Thursday Aug 06, 2009 11:00am

Rachel Maddow exposes the monied interests pretending to be "average Americans" who are fueling the outrage at these "town halls gone wild". First up, Recess Rally, sponsored by Michelle Malkin, Smart Girl Politics, Redstate, but also American Majority, and as Rachel points out, this group is hardly made up of average Americans even though they tout themselves as being a non-profit, non-partisan organization.

The people behind American Majority; Ned Ryun, former George W. Bush speech writer, Lonny Leitner, Regional Field Director for Bush/Cheney '04, Shari Weber, former Republican State Legislator, Matt Pinnell, a former Washington conservative lobbyist.

Rachel notes that American Majority is an offshoot of another Recess Rally sponsor, The Sam Adams Alliance. Their President, John Tsarpalas, former Executive Director of the Illinois State Republican party, their Director, Joseph Lehman, former Dow Chemicals engineer and president of the nation's largest conservative state level policy think tank.

Another sponsor of Recess Rally, Let Freedom Ring. Their founder, the money man behind the television ad exploiting 9-11 to promote the Iraq invasion. Another sponsor, the swift boaters.

Yet another sponsor, Americans for Prosperity, and their subsidiary Patients First. Americans for Prosperity's Director, Art Pope, who has the headquarters of the North Carolina Republican party named after him since he's given them so much money. Their Chairman, David Koch, the 19th richest man in the world who runs Koch Industries, which is the largest privately held oil company in the United States.

Americans for Prosperity runs the group Patients First which is busing people across the country to attend these town hall meetings.
continued...


The average middle class millionaires and lobbyists of RecessRalley.com ralleying people against healthcare reform are uncovered -- proving once more that this isn't grassroots but astroturf, and those little guys buying in and spreading the mission are crabgrass [thanks, Dan Jacoby!]. Outrageous indeed!

UPDATE: RecessRalley.com either got too many hits and/or has been shut down, thanks to Rachel Maddow shedding light on the average middle class millionaires behind the town hall hijacking. I've had fun googling RecessRalley.com. Thanks, FireDogLake.com for posting Rachel's video so quickly.



Late Night: Elephants on Parade
By: Gregg Levine Friday August 7, 2009 8:00 pm

How did we get here?

No, I am not asking about how we got to the place where we have orchestrated outrage that has metastasized into dangerous, violent, out-and-out rage—not exactly.



Single Payer: A Medical Insurgence Policy (Update 1)
by Propagandee

This is what a financial coup looks like

Does Michael Moore's "SICKO" Have It's Facts Straight?

Bob Cesca at HuffPo, in his post The Health Insurance Mafia Deserves a Good Screwing recounts his personal experience of losing his family’s medical insurance after his provider, without cause, raised their premium threefold overnight; and makes the case for a public option.

Atul Gawande of The New Yorker provides a clue as to why medical costs are spiraling out of control in his article The Cost Conundrum. He travels to McAllen, Texas (population 127,00), located in Hildago County to find out why it is home to the most expensive health care in the country.

DdC

Big Money Pulling the Strings of the Drug War

Prevention is 100% cheaper than ER care.
Clinics are 10 times cheaper than ER's
Tax payers pay for all of it.
Corporations and Government only profit on "treatment"
Not cures and prevention. They even make shit up to treat, like Ganja.

It boils down to the tax payer paying for services needed,
or more profits for the already subsidized tax sheltered wealthy internationalists. The poverty is caused, it ain't bibbledribble. The proportion of wealth divided by the people shows why we have poverty in America. Appeasers and gullible' believing pretty anchors over their own lying eyes. Happens all the time. Chumps get taken. Now the world economic ratio is 95/5 and the US about 90/10. The 50's it was closer to the optimum 80/20. It coincides with other natural ratios, nitrogen to oxygen, body water to solids, oceans to land, space to planets, all aprox 80/20. 80% of the wealth to 20% of the people creates jobs and that in turn creates sales, taxes and more jobs.

The greed factor and the socialist war machines and other industrial complex commie orgs are taking what should be going into schools and health care. Not Monsanto/Searle Pharmaceuticals/CliarenceThomas/DonaldRumsfeld. Halliburton/Cheney with Boosh 1 thousand points of light getting no bid contracts, pisstastes and hundreds of new for profit private prisons and over crowded schools. Laws to keep people out of college, tweaking the Higher Ed Act initiated to educate the poor, now condemns them to life without tuition assistance, pell grants and housing. Gramms foodstamps Ax leaves hungry kids and stealing food to eventually occupy more tax paid nothing returned space in those foreign owned private cages.

The poor and workers should be treated humanely, as American citizens it is a right, not a privilege. In spite of the 16 years of neo fascism with Klintoon and Boosh Jr, not counting the previous hordes of Constitutional manipulators. It ain't hard to see, if someone has to raise their voice and keep others from speaking, they ain't got shit to say, they just want to bully others into silence. Cowards like this have no allegiance to anything but their paycheck signers and political masters. Un-American greed, sacrificing American kids, all wrapped up in red white and blue chinese plastic. Sickening I tell ya, just vomit wrenching disgust at how moneysluts have no reckoning of shame or moral identity. Why have ethics when lies seal the deal? Ends justifying means De Ja vu all over again. Pitifuckingful.

Wallmart St. and the Banksters/Insurance rackets. Hand in hand with the Prison/Police Industrial Complex sleeping with the Medical/Pharmaceutical Industrial Complex. While the Drug Czar/Education Secretary Bennett censors the school books to reflect the virtues of the US and evaporating any trace of Hemp and Ganja so as not to confuse the kiddies. No different than Anslinger hogwash and Rockefeller financing the booze prohibition to remove biomass and biodiesels infrastructure making up 90% of the "stills". As they continue financing the drug war with "donations" to Walters Philanthropy Roundtable Laundromat, funneling tax shelters to Madison Ave Ad agencies dreaming up fried egg splattered on heroin commercials and those twins selling budgeiser of Germany. Or Adolph Coors. The Authoritah ain't your family, they sell tickets not democracy. Classism' alive and well among the USAl Qaeda!

Bullshit. The question is why do chumps working and paying taxes always cry about the poor when the corporations and wealthy pay less percentage, shelter most and then get subsidies many times over what is left for the impoverished. If you aid those in need they can get back to the workforce. If you take aid away or punish them they won't. If they don't, workers have to make it up, not the rich dodgers. Lapdogs for the rich in hopes they trickle down some of it is the same morons perpetuating the drug war. Teabagging each other, spewing poisons and prohibitions and for profit police actions they call wars. No socialized medicine other than medicaid and medicare we already have. Insurance poppycock. Anyone with insurance won't require government assistance. The slobs drooling outloud mouthfarting decent citizens, are just free advertising, while some get paid to dupe the public on faux news "shows". like the narkosluts. Check the websites. All corporate politiconjobs like the Dick Army, Tom Delay and Phil Gramm. Same intimidation of drug thugs and past vote re-counts. Nationalists Thugs and Black Water private KGB's. SOS Buzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

A Few Buzzwords

organic-hemp-v-pesticides

The DEAth Squad Goons use the same tactics...

"Casual drug users should be taken out and shot."
~Daryl Gates - Former LAPD Chief

Gates was the founder of DARE and father of SWAT.
This is what they're teaching American kids.
Is it any wonder they grow up addicted to killing?
Following blindly, to serve the corporation.
No drug as bad as a weak cowardly killer.
Censorship is a sign they have nothing to say.
Just a minority with guns and creepy ideology.

pesticideabortionist s



Redneck rich dysfunctional psychopaths. Lobbyists for International interest, not Americans. Anyone who needs censorship has nothing to say. Making pigs out of yourselves at Town Halls means you have nothing to say and fear others who do. The same asswipes giving a trillion dollars to the Banksters without a peep and then screaming holy hesus over a stimulous for the workers. Greedy ugly bastards perepetuating the Ganjawar keeping competition off the market with the same Madison Ave propaganda mills churning out reefer madness. Ya billybuba, who needs armed security when the slaves censor and imprison themselves. So gullible jumping into the fire with hobgoblins while reality goes whooosh over their heads. Not hard to see how weak the yelling cowards are. Just blow Ganja smoke at em and watch them run like girlymen.

Organic Cannabis/Tobacco vs Chemical Cigarettes

AstroTurf Thuggery.... lol



"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country... Corporations have bee enthroned, an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money-power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed."
-- Abraham Lincoln, November 12, 1864

The Corporate Muzzle

wellfleation

DdC, you always have your shit together. Unlike JW's propaganda/dogma.

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FIGHTPOWER

stoneric

You keep bringing up pelosi. Has anyone here defended her? Does being for healthcare reform make her a "far left liberal"? How about her refusal to put impeahment of bush "on the table"? Or her backing of our perpetual wars by not supporting cutting off the funding? Or how about her complicity in allowing torture? Or her israel first attitude? Hardly a far left liberal to me. Hardly a liberal at all.

Being

Nice posts DDc, i usually never read your posts all the way through, but these (especially the first) were damn well organized.

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R.I.P. Gov

stoneric

I watched some clips from the different town meetings last nite. I couldn't help wonder if they bussed all those morons in from the same trailor court.

Canuck Wisdom

The videos were great too.

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-Knowitall A&P type-

stateofkane

People from Europe and Canada come to the US for complicated medical procedures... if they can afford it. Our medical system is better because it's free enterprise, but that's changing quickly. Not many people want to be doctors anymore because of that.

Helping people isn't the government's job. All this plan will do is make it so the people who can PAY, the people who contribute the most, will end up waiting longer, be denied procedures, etc. so some dysgenic piece of shit can get in ahead of them.

Fuck your philosophy of helping people. This is going to hurt people that we want to live longer. Use your head.

Ego Tripping

If you're becoming a doctor just for the money, then I'm glad they are choosing not to be doctors. Health should not be a commodity.

And aside from complicated medical procedures, which are a very small percentage of the healthcare system as well as a fraction of a percentage of the doctors that practice in the United States, I'd love to see some stats of how many people are flocking to the US for health care.

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

As well as a good read here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/op...l?pagewanted=2

Be careful jw, these are actual statistics, I know how those scare you.

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Being

You're an idiot. Do some studying.

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R.I.P. Gov

stoneric

Still, the two groups are operating from the same stratosphere.

Mull D

We can't afford this. The government has a horrible record in everything it has ever tried to do. They do it expensively and they give bad results. Once the run from the dollar starts, this shit hits the fan. With the stress that sort of thing will put on people do we really want to be giving the government more control? This can only end badly. Forget about the sideshow town hallshit on cable news and consider a real basic issue at hand here (in fact stop watching cable news altogether). The power to ration your own things for yourself is being transfered from you to some small group of people who can decide for everyone.

They will make impersonal decisions for you on your medical care based on their budget your demographic and their special interests.

This shit ain't free. If you want to do what's best for the welfare of the public you have to do whats best for the welfare of their economy, and we're about to see this time of consuming and little producing come to an end and it will be back to what can you produce for yourself again Where do you think the federal government is going to get this money? It's not going to have it. It's going to have to cut so many corners just to try to save face. They will raise taxes that could have been spent on heath care in the first place. If we can slowly remove the subsidies there is no longer that guarantee of profit and real affordability can begin to take shape across the board.

Politicians only have to worry about a certain problem in the present. They have no incentive not to push it off into the future just long enough to say "look at these numbers, the problem is fixed, reelect me." They're concerned about taking care of their problem and their problem is doing what makes people happy right now.

my_scatterheart

They already make impersonal decisions for you based on their budget. More realistically, their income, and what they'd like to see in their pocket that month.
Unless you're at the top, you're going to get fucked by whoever is at the top. Inevitable.

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Be mindful even if your mind is full. -J. De La Vega

Ego Tripping

Sign of a lost topic...the OP just gives thanks to every post.

And orange, the reform won't even really begin to take a strong effect until 2011...one year before the end of Obama's 2nd and last term, if he goes gets to serve two terms. I don't see how this is about a re-election issue. Secondly, can you or jw produce one iota of evidence that this is going to wipe out the private sector? It's just a public option. I can choose public schools or privatized schools. How an health care not abide by the same standards?

I find it interesting that just because we're one of the last countries on earth that still privatizes health care that we feel it's the best way to do it. Talk about special interests.

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John F. Kerry

sign of not wanting to fight with the same people about the same things, i dunno some of u attack me just for saying that i feel obamas current plan (the house plan) is hopelessly misguided.


basically, all the bad shit that happened in Sicko where people were pissed at private insurance companies....


all of that shit will just be switched over to people being so PISSED AT THE GOVT INSTEAD OF THE INSURANCE COMPANIES for life or death decisions that cold beurocrats will make about people who payed taxes their entire lives-



americans want the choice that the FREE MARKET provides. adam smith wasnt an asshole anymore than I am. its simply the best way to get the care we want for the most efficient price possible .

fix it with legislation ,but dont create this crazy liberal utopian bulshit plan that will supposedly "fix everthing" and make it "better and cheaper for all" .

listen to demagoguery and u will be considered and treated as a fool- by the government.

Mull D

Firstly, I never made any point to that claim. But the case stands that the more competition removed from an industry the weaker it competes.
This is an issue of who is controlling our spending and our government at large. If you let the governemt have the money, the money takes control of the government. It fall's apart when the first person runs for the door.

scottishbastard

Hahaha...Wow. I stay off yahooka for like...2 days and I come back to see another J wonder post on Obama-care with like...4 pages of responses haha. Atleast I know I have something to rely on in life.

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Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do
No matter what I ask of you
You think you hold the high hand
I've got my doubts
I come from Chino where the asphalt sprouts
.....

And even if I have to go to Claremont
Well I guess I'll just have to go to Claremont
Let me go
Let me lie low

Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do
No matter what I ask of you
And you send your dark messengers to tempt me
I come from Chino so all your threats are empty

- the mountain goats

Ego Tripping

I do understand the notion, but it sounds like a scare tactic of private insurance companies to ensure they don't get any competition. Are private schools out of business?

Agreed, but we let it happen with tons of other government run programs that are purely optional in the first place. Why would health care be something that is an exception to this rule? Granted, when the government is left to run a program, it can be less than efficient, but that's why it's an option, not a takeover.

One thing I heard on NPR which we would all agree on is this really isn't health care reform, that would integrate a new way of looking at health care in general. This is really just health care insurance reform. And in that case, it's going to require government intervention, whether it's a public option or mandates and regulation to the private sector. I actually would rather have the public option, as the private insurance companies would find endless loopholes to ensure maximum profits. A public option would supply, at the very least, just general doctor visits. It also covers dental and vision, which most people ignore or are unaware of. I know I would love it if I didn't have to pay $300 for a prescription and a healthy chunk of cash for a filling. And if the public option sucks, the private insurance companies can just offer a better product.

To me, this debate basically sounds like private interests trying to keep a lockdown on a very profitable area as well as the government wanting a piece of it. I think a small portion of this movement is somewhat altruistic in wanting to provide health care to the lesser fortunate and for that, I must stand by a public option, the same way I would for education.

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