flappy

Good issues for you to research over the weekend,if you get some free time.

Mafoo

oh shit we have homework!?

this is a good thread, ignore my joke

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PLUR
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return

flappy

I think Verk wants quick answers sometimes. The guy knows something just ain't right, but can't quite put his finger on it. Seeing there is a world, right on our doorstep, that will LRAD your ass just for LOOKING at a protest, can be frightening.
Keep up the InfoWars, bros !

Maturin

Oh, please.

I'm sorry the leaders of 20 countries in the world gather in one spot and there might be some security.

May I ask some questions here? Where was the first video shot? Did the people have a permit to protest peacefully? Or did they just think they could go wherever they please in the name of the 1st Amendment? (This applies to the second video as well but since it's so short and out of context it's barely worth considering. What happened in the five minutes beforehand, I ask?). I'm surmising these people didn't have a permit and thus weren't there legally. The fair warning the cops give at the start says as much.

I'm getting sick of these people who gather and vandalize in the name of economic anarchy whenever more than three bankers meet in Whatever City to discuss what they had for lunch. They aren't actually trying to change anything; they're just young and rowdy and want to make noise. It's little more than an excuse for a party. They're like Deadheads for the World Bank: wherever the meeting is, that's where they'll show up and ask for a dose. Fuck whatever actually being discussed. Protest anything in the name of making the evening news.

Want to be taken seriously? Take off the fucking bandanna; this ain't Tombstone.

__________________
"Creating something is not a democracy. The people have no say. The artist does. It doesn't matter what the people witter on about: they and their response comes after. They're not there for the moment of creation."

--Russell T Davies

zerodown

I really don't understand why you guys are unable to agree on one simple thing, regardless of how effective protests are, that first video clearly depicts a scene in which it is clear fact that americans DO NOT have free speech, that video shows how your voice, your speech, your right can be silenced easily. To try and say otherwise only serves as a means to measure how indoctrinated you are.

Can't you all just agree on that very simple and obvious fact? If we cannot agree on such a simple thing how can we ever agree on how to save the nation?

__________________
"I've seen people so poor all they got is money."

We have to learn to unlearn
Its not contradiction, its amendment
Not everything we see is reality
Not everything we hear is the truth
Not everything we're taught helps us grow
~Cultura Profetica

"La locura se lleva en la cabeza y las drogas en los bolsillos"
~Roberto Iniesta

spicoli

these things happen in our country so much more often than i was aware, until now.
i am in shock. this is a terrible and terrifying thing to wake up to. our media is so sanitized...just like in countries in the middle east that i felt sorry for. who's sorry now?
i agree...it is NO COINCIDENCE that the 'terrorist suspects' that have been charged are being charged with crimes NOW. we are on the fringe of sending 40,000 more troops to afghanistan, and on the verge of supporting an israeli attack of iran. FUCK!!! if israel attacks, you know they'll have our govs support. israel as much as said they don't wanna wait any given period of time before they go.
get up on youtube...there's more like this one.

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The only thing that limits human beings is what we think we know. -me

Ego Tripping

Protesters and police clash again? OFMFOMGOMOMFOMFOMFOG G ALERT TEH MEDIAZ!!!!!!!!

This was just a power struggle. Protests can be peaceful until they turn violent, simple as that. Good lord, research the pasts protests of civil rights and tell me this is something new or unheard of. While the police use a very heavy hand, the protesters use heavy hands as well. Both parties are guilty of inciting violence. There are fucked up people on both sides of the line and to deny that is to be biased to the upmost. The clash of these two groups do not herald the arrival of a police state, they exhibit the visceral pulse of our Democracy at work. Fact is, there is no Police State at work, just a symptom of the law vs. the people and it's been that way since the inception and subsequent balance of our young but rapidly growing Democracy.

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Geeno

If protests werent somewhat controlled they could easily turn into riots.

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kameelyun

No actually, I think the quintessential ones are Soviet Union, Khemer Rouge (Pol Pot), Mao's China, and modern North Korea. Believe it or not, Nazi Germany was kind of tame in comparison, at least until the war years.

I read in a book that there was only one Gestapo informant for every 5,000 people living in Nazi Germany. By contrast, under Soviet communism, there was one Stasi informant for about 120 civilians. The East Germans under Communism had to reckon with the possibility of an informant being present at any fairly large dinner party. The Germans under Nazism, by contrast, could largely eat in peace, and indeed so could the 'undesirable' minorities, at least until the war years hit.

__________________
"The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off." - Gloria Steinem

kameelyun

I don't see any violence being incited by the protesters in the first video of the OP. I see people holding signs and Luke Rudkowski using his bullhorn to try and remind the police of First Amendment rights in public property. Private property of course is a different story.

In downtown Cincinnati I've been with groups that have protested at major events like Riverfest. It's public property. Great opportunity to peacefully get our message out. So the authorities take this route to try and silence us: "Yes, normally it's public property, but this event is sponsored by (fill in the blank) so it's private today." I mean come on, sheesh. You don't buy or rent public property. It's public domain, for Chrissakes!

__________________
"The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off." - Gloria Steinem

Peace seeker

thats fascism and unless you do something about it, its gonna get worse and worse

did you see those idiots from broward county's police dept? they were laughing for shooting that poor lady on the face

what a bunch of loosers

wearing the police uniform and thinking they are the law....wankers

go suck each others dicks and play with your cop gear


in this neck of the woods, our youth throws molotovs to such wankers

thousands of molotovs



when cops arent afraid of the people, then you have fascism

its up to you to overturn that fascism

zerodown

A controlled protest is not a protest.

And ego tripping, how can it be a power struggle if one side has signs and bullhorns and the other side has shields, guns, handcuffs, boots, uniforms, tear gas, sticks, tazers, helmets, armored vehicles and a semi immunity badge?

Seriously, do you have trouble deciding who is in power between a cop shooting against a woman covering behind a sign?

Heres a video of my town, I was here having drinks with my friends as all university students do at night, this place is right outside the campus. You can see no one is being violent, i can guarantee it cause i was there, and then look what happens:

Let me say what is going on here for better understandment. 3 cops are walking past peacful students who are just having fun, the last one is carrying one of those tear gas bazooka or whatever is called, the girl recording them is shouting "this is police oppression". when they reach the front of the most popular pub on the street, the turn and start pointing the bazooka, trying to decide where to shoot it to, everyone yells "don't do it", still he shoots and then you will clearly see at the end how a cop can knock down a line of peacful students with ease. I gtg work. Oh yeah, it might be good to know this happened the day before a new law prohibiting the sale of alcohol after 12pm was being passed, do i need to say that this was only a show to pass on the news and show the people how badly we need said law? yeah right, it all backfired thanks to these videos that showed this "riot" was a montage by the police.



If you write motin rio piedras, you can see more videos of the same night, one of them, hard to find, shows a girl with big chunk of her leg missing cause she was shot with one of those bazookas.

Its sickening to watch these things, but its more sickening listening to people who try and defend these idiots by sying things like ego tripping comments. Damn america, wake up.

__________________
"I've seen people so poor all they got is money."

We have to learn to unlearn
Its not contradiction, its amendment
Not everything we see is reality
Not everything we hear is the truth
Not everything we're taught helps us grow
~Cultura Profetica

"La locura se lleva en la cabeza y las drogas en los bolsillos"
~Roberto Iniesta

kameelyun

I myself am disgusted by the ones here who are defending the police action. Hell, while we're at it, let's escalate the war on pot smokers too!

Remember the Iranian woman who was shot and her bleeding death caught on cell phone cam for the world to see?

Because it happened in a country that the western world considers a "dictatorship," she became hyped the world over as a symbol of freedom and democracy in the face of oppression.

If it had happened in the USA, one or two on this forum would have probably tried to make excuses for the shooter. "Well, uuuh, she knew protesting was against the law" "she was engaging in douchebaggery" etc.

Quit making excuses for this kind of oppression! I know it's cognitive dissonance to realize that the USA is turning into (has turned into) precisely what we thought we never would. WAKE UP!!!!

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"The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off." - Gloria Steinem

spicoli

it is an extremely difficult thing to even try to wrap your head around, but you cannot deny it once you SEE IT. it really looks like us against them.
as for 'unlawful assemblies:'

'Hi, excuse me, can I please have a permit to voice my opinion of disdain over the way things are being run, please.' WTF? who the FUCK are they serving and protecting? cuz it's not the PEOPLE.

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The only thing that limits human beings is what we think we know. -me

JcP

while the police action is intense, I'm curious about motives here. The "clash" between protestors and police gives the protestors FAR more media coverage and public awareness...

I, like Verk, have yet to hear a concise answer to what exactly is being protested...but this is NOT a police state.
A police state would have silenced the protests and any news about them. Fascist state, perhaps, but hyperbole makes you look silly and uneducated.

Seeing both sides to an argument like this does not mean you are "siding" with the police or are experiencing cognitive dissonance. It just means you're thinking clearly enough to not let passion and emotion get in the way of your comprehension of motives and what's actually occuring.

Congratulations to the protestors...you've made national headlines. In fact, the protests have made more news that the actual meeting. What you're protesting, I don't know. But grats!

__________________

Just look out around us, people fightin their wars...
They think they'll be happy when they've settled their scores...
Let's lay down our weapons
and hold us apart
be still for just a minute
try to open our hearts
MORE LOVE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rev It's not what you see, it's that you're looking.

zerodown

What a protest is about is completely irrelevant, they could have been protesting against the color pink for all it matters, what IS important here is the fact that government is using police violence to shut down peaceful protests.

The point is also trying to shift to "is it a police state or not?" well, it doesn't matter either, we can't spend the next ten years arguing about categorizations, it is what it is, police state or not, we have to look at the evidence and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, the evidence CLEARLY AND WITHOUT DOUBT shows prostests being shut down by police brutality. DO SOMETHING AMERICA!

Also you say you want to hear the two sides, but there are three sides:

Protesters
brainless police following orders
order givers who protesters are protesting against

These videos show only the first two, the protesters and the brainless, so you can only hear one side of the argument:

Protesters: Stop [protest issue]!!!
Brainless: ... you are in violation of blah blah blah, GTFO.

Seriously, focus on what matters, the american public has lost the right to protest(like every other right), now you need a permit to protest.

WTF AMERICA!!!

__________________
"I've seen people so poor all they got is money."

We have to learn to unlearn
Its not contradiction, its amendment
Not everything we see is reality
Not everything we hear is the truth
Not everything we're taught helps us grow
~Cultura Profetica

"La locura se lleva en la cabeza y las drogas en los bolsillos"
~Roberto Iniesta

kameelyun

Thank you.

Very good point.

I'm reminded of the mass murder that went on in Darfur, Sudan, a few years ago.

World authorities who had the power to go in and stop it stood on their hands, arguing for the LONGEST TIME over whether what was going on in Darfur technically fit the definition of genocide, or whether this was "not quite" genocide. Meanwhile the injustices were continuing.

__________________
"The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off." - Gloria Steinem

JcP

stop that. That wasn't the point. Asking what they are protesting about is a complete side-tangent of a question to my main point.
Peaceful protests you say? Have you not paid any attention to the G-8 and G-20 protests in the past? There's a REASON my friends from Pittsburgh fuckin' LEFT TOWN when this all started. Don't you remember Seattle a few years ago?
People set fires, threw shit, broke windows, and basically rioted. In Pittsburgh there have already been vandalism incidents and "anarchist" crap all over the place.

So please take my question of "what are they protesting" as a secondary question as intended instead of making that the main affront in your rebuttal.
As I said quite clearly: my issue is with hyperbole getting in the way of a message. Calling Obama a socialist makes those who disagree with him look like assholes. Calling Bush a Nazi: assholes. And calling America a police state: assholes.
you lose all credibility among anyone who understands the concept(s) you're invoking...completel y neutering any ability you have to convince them of your points.
do something America? do what? What are YOU doing?
I'm pissed at the police, and equally pissed off at these mask wearing idiots who think destruction and violence is a way to get their "message" (whatever it is...) across.
That being said...what would you like "us" to do? What is your planned, thought out, viable solution? You seem to be extremely passionate about the G-20 and police brutality...so I assume you have a solution or a plan? Or are you just raging for raging's sake?

You know who you should be mad at? The idiots who riot and cause destruction which leads to the NEED for fucking riot police and "non-lethal" tanks in an American city.

If you want to do this, then let's be honest...There are "brainless" police following orders, there are completely honest and belief-oriented police following orders, there are brainless "protesters" using this event as an excuse to be "angsty," there are honest and belief-oriented protesters who have a message (still awaiting to hear what this is), there are the order givers who the protesters are protesting against, and there are order givers who incite fear and anger in people who end up joining this "protest" with only the knowledge passed unto them by their "leaders."

"now" you need a permit to protest? You've needed a permit to protest since before you were born (assuming you're not ancient).

THE ENTIRE CITY OF PITTSBURGH has basically shut the fuck down because of the apparent "non-protests." What do you want?

the purpose of a protest is to get your message out. Applying for a permit to do so keeps protests in line with the “exercised in subordination to the general comfort and convenience, and in consonance with peace and good order….” which was a supreme court ruling in 1939. Public space(s) are for the use of ALL, not for the monopolization of a single group, regardless of their message.

__________________

Just look out around us, people fightin their wars...
They think they'll be happy when they've settled their scores...
Let's lay down our weapons
and hold us apart
be still for just a minute
try to open our hearts
MORE LOVE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rev It's not what you see, it's that you're looking.

The Rev

Big Brother is watching, but Little Brother is watching him right back.



The Rev

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Ego Tripping

^ Exactly.

And zerodown, at what point did I ever defend the police? Kiss my ass, thanks.

Once again, nothing new under the sun. People protest, police are meant to "control" the situation as Geeno said yet always tend to use a heavier hand than necessary which incites blowback which turns into the shit you see in the videos.

That does not equate to a coming police state. In fact, if it did, we would already be in a full fledged one by this point. I'm not going to buy into the whole "wake up America" rhetoric...so far, that's all i see people like zerodown posting. I'm wide awake. That's why I moved to an area that is attempting to become community sustained along with it's own power, water, food and currency. Difference is, I didn't do it out of fear, I did it out of joy, because I love of where the world is going. And that choice between fear and love is the only choice that's going to get us further along. From people like flappy and zerdown, they are simply perpetrating the very fear that they are protesting.

If you really want to fight back against the "powers that be", stop being afraid of any inevitable "police state." Then we could finally get somewhere.

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