Iran - Page 4

John F. Kerry · 09-28-2009, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SageTree

Isn't a trifecta a combo of picking, in order of finish, three winners.

I'm interested in hearing your take on this since you said he lost on calling you two name.

Symatics I know, but I didn't find ANY other definition of it.

enlighten me.

your a perceptive little devil arent u ?

funny u should mention that because i thought the same thing but then going back over it i figured you could count the insinuation about making personal insults like a 3rd name- because i hadnt done that

so semantically id say i was on shaky but standable ground. n'est pas?

sagetree why are u being rude now too? shit i like all u people and then u guys just hate on me because of my political views. it pisses me off- i was just compliementing your painted feathers and ish, wtf, im a cool dude, i just happen to have a wiser and more well rounded poltical view than u guys (

)

John F. Kerry · 09-28-2009, 11:14 PM

remember my thread about the native americans getting screwed ? i certainly do not consider myself a right wing person or ideologue.

**Kompressor** · 09-28-2009, 11:21 PM

Lost? Win? Trifecta horse gambling?

What's your definition of a loss, or a win in this case? My case has been that you can't pick the 'winners' or 'losers,' but you can pick out the flaws of logic.

How is shaky standable? but I digress.

Fine, I'll admit I'm sick of people pining on things that they have no grasp on, because even the damn UN doesn't have a grasp on it. Maybe i am too engrossed in Academia and bureaucracy where one has to prove their sources and their insights.

And it's not a personal insult when said source openly admits and embraces it, it's a citation.

John F. Kerry · 09-28-2009, 11:28 PM

no i really just meant it to be like 3 of something , the gambling aspect was not a part of the allusion.

i appreciate that u feel strongly for ur view and thus have to maintain a front that its your "superior grasp and engrossation(is that a word lol) in academia" that causes u to have your opinion on these matters (a liberal one i think its fair to say) and that i just have mine due to "flaws in logic and no grasp of said issues".

personally i dont need those kinds of reminders to myself that im right, because ill hear what anyone has to say and accept or reject it on its merits.

the one part of your post that i thought might evolve into something more than this admitedly fun verbal joust is your view on hte UN- care to ellaborate?

- obviously engross is a word, i didnt mean to imply that it wasnt, i was using it in a likely wrong way because it fit my sentence structure....

**Kompressor** · 09-28-2009, 11:31 PM

Engrossed is an actual word, that's not my 'superior grasp.'

**SageTree** · 09-28-2009, 11:34 PM

Il a été

I am not hating man, I just like to learn new and correct

uses of the words. I have horrible spelling, as Komp, my lawyer, will tell you.

Your political views to puzzle me at times and I do remember your thread about Natives. It was pretty America view of relations, compared to how I feel after having worked beside them here in Canada, but I feel it was fairly compassionate.

Honestly I read what you have to say and it's no skin off my nose either way. I'm glad you are hear to mix it up alittle because it our talking out our point we learn alot about each other and ourselves. And I always say the more we know about others, the more we know about ourselves. For better or worse.

But I'm seriously not picking. I just like to keep it irrelevant when there is a quarrel!

Weez alittle joo-uice.....Guy looks like Uber King, AKA Mr. Potter, but not like tha bastard in It's a wonderful life....

Quote:

Originally Posted by John F. Kerry

your a perceptive little devil arent u ?

funny u should mention that because i thought the same thing but then going back over it i figured you could count the insinuation about making personal insults like a 3rd name- because i hadnt done that

so semantically id say i was on shaky but standable ground. n'est pas?

sagetree why are u being rude now too? shit i like all u people and then u guys just hate on me because of my political views. it pisses me off- i was just compliementing your painted feathers and ish, wtf, im a cool dude, i just happen to have a wiser and more well rounded poltical view than u guys (

)

**Kompressor** · 09-28-2009, 11:46 PM

I respect the right, and yes I'd say i'm left-leaning, which is why I love Maturin's opinions so much since he knows his shit. He has been able to persuade me based on his sources and credibility.

Either way, no one can still define what is a 'loss or a win.' If Iran gains nuclear capability, is that a 'win' for Iran and a loss for the world, or is it a win/loss for everyone? Was the gun a 'win' over the bow?

Technology is technology, and in it's literal definition the 'use of knowledge.' Good, bad, win, loss, are all relative. Does the Monroe Doctrine apply to the entire globe now?

John F. Kerry · 09-29-2009, 12:04 AM

i see what your saying and i see how hard it is to keep knowledge out of peoples hands - i worry about the fact that iran didnt acquire this capability by its own work and education and "wisdom" but rather on the black market which is well established thru the AQ khan network which sold all the parts for it - maybe they are starting to do some things on their own after 8 years but thats only because of how long we have let them use and operate illegal equipment smuggled into iran by aq khan who is now under house arrest in pakistan etc etc...

so thats the one thing i worry about - i dont wanna sound condecesnding but its a fucking NUCLEAR WEAPON= thats the kind of shit the world doesnt come back from- a nuclear attack is an insane thing, thus nuclear weapons are not a normal piece of "technology" that i think everyone has the right to-

ok maybe if they can build it themselves what can we say? but they didnt do that, they stole it and basically blackmailed the world and dared them to do anything about it - to be fair they got far enough along before we got our shit together that their wasnt much we could do-

so thats the first part of the worry ,

the 2nd thing is that islamic terrorists want nuclear shit- dont they ? i mean i assume they do? they want to wreak havoc on westerners or even friggen Japanese ... its not racsist to recognize that Iran is a country that would never have a nuclear program by its own work and maybe doesnt have the wisdom in its leadership to make me feel comforable much less not shit scared of them using nukes for allah or this reason or that.... or to "get israel" because thats what they want and say they want to do- if they are saying they are going to wipe nations off the map, and they want to be the arab champion by mass murdering and suicide bombing millions- and its pretty obvious not even disguised as such - then i dont know how we can just watch that happen, if the world is civilized or intelligent it would seem to not want iran to have nuclear weapons in this day and age.

ps sorry for all the spelling fuckups i really gotta get a new battery for my keyboard its annoying as hell to go back and fix it

**Kompressor** · 09-29-2009, 12:13 AM

By that logic one could argue that Russia, India, or China didn't acquire nuclear technology by their own work. You're also assuming a sovereign nation is incapable of assuming the global risks of a nuclear attack, let alone wiping the holiest of holy cities and the Dome of the Rock.

stoneric · 09-29-2009, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John F. Kerry

anyone who isnt at least drastically suspicious of iran is deluding themselves and sadly the world,

drastic worry is not the same as requiring any kind of attack -

i think at this point an israeli led attack will simply not work....bottom line. unless u had b2s and shit meaning the good old usa air force taking care of it-

so how does that ever happen?

unfortunately at this point it seems people are really being lazy and uncritical and willing to "give the iranians the benefit of the doubt" for years and years as they obviously say more and more outrageous things and destrabilizing things - AND test missles repeatedly - ANd loudly procalim they will never negotiate ONE INCH on nuclear issues- AND we keep finding NEW MORE WELL HIDDEN URANIUM BUNKERS-

but for some reason china and russia think some economic ties to a BAD REGIME will be cut if they were to support the IRANIAN PEOPLE INSTEAD OF THE AYATOLLAHS AND AHMADINEJAD- the world just watched the iranians beat the shit out of their population like in the 1980s in eastern europe- but now liberals for some reason are so anti any war at all and anti being strong for freedom even that we cant even seem to put ANY pressure on iran.

i admit the options are not great- but I dont see anything wrong, and basically everything right with getting all the way to a 48 HOUR ULTIMATUm- just like bush - and if we really had a wise president I think he would be able to reach a deal with Iran in the last few minutes that spared the world this conflict and yet removed the threat-

so America can win in the cuban missle crisis? and watch iraq have its nuclear ambitions taken away? but now because it happens to be 2009 we have to let an insane dictatorial regime that is not democratic (doesnt care about the people it rules- the basis for any kind of deterence) and the world specifically CHINA AND RUSSIa wont support ANYTHING AT ALL....
WTF!!!!

CHINA AND RUSSIA YOU GUYS ARE BACKING US INTO A CORNER HERE IF U REALLY WANT WORLD PEACE YOU WILL HELP EUROPE AND AMEIRCA (AND THE CIVILIZED WORLD) REACH A BETTER ACCOMODATION WITH IRAN THAN WE HAVE NOW-

an iranian nuke could just as easily hit beijing DINGBATS ... WAKE UP!

Everyone is suspicous of Iran. The difference is that some people believe that attacking Iran will only inflame the region even moreso than we have been able to do thus far.

You say drastic worry is not the same as attack and then go on to suggest it will have to be a joint effort. You also ignore the fact that Iran was willing to negotiate ALL issues back in "03 but cowboy bush said no. You then exaggerate about finding new hidden uranium bunkers when the IAEA hasn't even started inspecting the "hidden" facilty that Iran isn't even obligated to report to the IAEA until 6 months before it is operational. And my god, they keep testing missles. I guess only the good guys are allowed to do that.

You then chastise russia and china for not supporting the Iranian people. We can starve them with sanctions or bomb the shit out of them. Which one will help the oppressed people that you claim to care so much about? And speaking of the oppressed and how the liberals have abandoned them, why not cut ties economically with the saudis while we're at it? Oppression is oppression, right? Or are you "anti being strong for freedom" like the liberals you so detest?

And finally, China better wise up because Iran can nuke them too. I imagine Iran has a whole list of countries it wants to nuke as soon as the assembly line gets going. Of course that first one will be targeted for mother israel. After all they did threaten to wipe them off the map as you continuously allude to.

**~~stateofkane~~** · 09-29-2009, 04:27 PM

Iran has the right to develop nukes. The chance of a US invasion is slim either way.

flappy · 09-29-2009, 04:45 PM

I hope Iran isn't the next big crisis, but it's a possibility. We need another 911 type event to steal the people's attention away from the ongoing government consolidation of power.

stoneric · 09-29-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John F. Kerry

i admit the options are not great- but I dont see anything wrong, and basically everything right with getting all the way to a 48 HOUR ULTIMATUm- just like bush - and if we really had a wise president I think he would be able to reach a deal with Iran in the last few minutes that spared the world this conflict and yet removed the threat-

A wise president would follow bush's lead? Jesus, do you live under a rock? How exactly did that little "diplomatic" diddy turn out?

flappy · 09-29-2009, 05:04 PM

" The French don't even have a word for entrepreneur. " George Bush

I saw it on the internets.

verklingen · 09-30-2009, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappy

I hope Iran isn't the next big crisis, but it's a possibility.

it's been a possibility for years. remember the "axis of evil?" why wasn't anything done when we had a president tossing terms like that around, and why is it expected now that we don't? anything's a possibility, likelihood is another question entirely. but hold on to the fear! it's exciting, i know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappy

We need another 911 type event to steal the people's attention away from the ongoing government consolidation of power.

whoa shit it's like sophomore year in high school again. still waiting. . . 10 years later. i guess they wanted to wait until the iron got hot. oooh i've got butterflies, hehe!

flappy · 09-30-2009, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by verklingen

it's been a possibility for years. remember the "axis of evil?" why wasn't anything done when we had a president tossing terms like that around, and why is it expected now that we don't? anything's a possibility, likelihood is another question entirely. but hold on to the fear! it's exciting, i know.

whoa shit it's like sophomore year in high school again. still waiting. . . 10 years later. i guess they wanted to wait until the iron got hot. oooh i've got butterflies, hehe!

You constantly keep bringing up fear, I'm talking about vigilance. Your reference about " . . and why is it expected now that we don't? " doesn't make any sense.
We know you think all is fine and good. You're a good family man, and know you don't want to think of anything negative.
But realize this. . .you've never changed anyone's mind here, just like me.
Now quit projecting fear into every post.

Here you go, Verk . . .just for you !
"Now [online readers] have the opportunity to read positive stories. At least the public can go there and see the whole story," he insisted. "The public wants to hear these good stories."

This is from the United States Central Command: The Raw Story | Raw obtains CENTCOM email to bloggers

Ego Tripping · 09-30-2009, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappy

But realize this. . .you've never changed anyone's mind here,

Actually, verk is renowned around these parts for being able to eloquently and intelligently change peoples minds...only the minds that are open, however. You wouldn't know this though, because you're brand new and think you know jackshit about anybody here.

Quote:

Now quit projecting fear into every post.

@ you saying this to verk. I honestly don't know if you can even read. There's not a shred of sentiment that verk posts that lends anything to anywhere near the spectrum of fear.

Kid, you don't know anything about anybody here. For god sakes, go away or stop pretending you actually understand what people are saying.

verklingen · 09-30-2009, 09:55 AM

any talk of crisis without an actual crisis occurring is empty fear. iran is not a crisis situation, but there are people (namely whichever shadowy forces are intent on pulling the strings in world affairs) who would benefit from creating a sense of impending crisis, i.e. fear. so yes, the propaganda machine is entirely vigilant in the pursuit of pumping out baseless fear to create an avenue to enact plans for further domination. it worked for iraq and afghanistan, but those are both dismal failures by all accounts. they've been trying with iran and n. korea for years and it's much ado about nothing. but it's all they've got so they'll run with it to their graves.

it's not that i don't want to think about anything negative, i think about negative things all the time. i just recognize how the negativity is dissipating and i'd like to preempt the celebration and enjoy a peaceful life now. i went through a very beneficial phase of enduring fear which helped me grow by tempering my skills of critical analysis. since then i've parted with the trees to take in the whole forest, and within it i see a picture of peace developing despite frantic plots and conspiracies bent on stemming it. those plots are like a steam engine and can only continue moving forward when enough fear is generated among the populations who would be affected. i will therefor rally against it in all its forms

flappy · 09-30-2009, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ego Tripping

Actually, verk is renowned around these parts for being able to eloquently and intelligently change peoples minds...only the minds that are open, however. You wouldn't know this though, because you're brand new and think you know jackshit about anybody here.

@ you saying this to verk. I honestly don't know if you can even read. There's not a shred of sentiment that verk posts that lends anything to anywhere near the spectrum of fear.

Kid, you don't know anything about anybody here. For god sakes, go away or stop pretending you actually understand what people are saying.

Beneath the bravado and insults, I know another EgoTrip. One who is not afraid of showing his vulnerable side. A man who is not afraid of crying all day.

PS Anyone else whose lives have been changed thru Verk's eloquent posts?

flappy · 09-30-2009, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by verklingen

any talk of crisis without an actual crisis occurring is empty fear. iran is not a crisis situation, but there are people (namely whichever shadowy forces are intent on pulling the strings in world affairs) who would benefit from creating a sense of impending crisis, i.e. fear. so yes, the propaganda machine is entirely vigilant in the pursuit of pumping out baseless fear to create an avenue to enact plans for further domination. it worked for iraq and afghanistan, but those are both dismal failures by all accounts. they've been trying with iran and n. korea for years and it's much ado about nothing. but it's all they've got so they'll run with it to their graves.

it's not that i don't want to think about anything negative, i think about negative things all the time. i just recognize how the negativity is dissipating and i'd like to preempt the celebration and enjoy a peaceful life now. i went through a very beneficial phase of enduring fear which helped me grow by tempering my skills of critical analysis. since then i've parted with the trees to take in the whole forest, and within it i see a picture of peace developing despite frantic plots and conspiracies bent on stemming it. those plots are like a steam engine and can only continue moving forward when enough fear is generated among the populations who would be affected. i will therefor rally against it in all its forms

OK, You changed my mind.

I'm beginning to think VERK and EGO are one and the same. They both seem to pop out at the same time..kind of a good cop/bad cop.

09-28-2009, 11:21 PM	#63 (permalink)
Kompressor Voice of Reason Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Illinois Posts: 8,066 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2,849 Times in 1,509 Posts	Lost? Win? Trifecta horse gambling? What's your definition of a loss, or a win in this case? My case has been that you can't pick the 'winners' or 'losers,' but you can pick out the flaws of logic. How is shaky standable? but I digress. Fine, I'll admit I'm sick of people pining on things that they have no grasp on, because even the damn UN doesn't have a grasp on it. Maybe i am too engrossed in Academia and bureaucracy where one has to prove their sources and their insights. And it's not a personal insult when said source openly admits and embraces it, it's a citation. __________________ Think like a man of action, act like a man of thought. -H. Bergson

09-28-2009, 11:31 PM	#65 (permalink)
Kompressor Voice of Reason Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Illinois Posts: 8,066 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2,849 Times in 1,509 Posts	Engrossed is an actual word, that's not my 'superior grasp.' __________________ Think like a man of action, act like a man of thought. -H. Bergson

09-28-2009, 11:46 PM	#67 (permalink)
Kompressor Voice of Reason Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Illinois Posts: 8,066 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2,849 Times in 1,509 Posts	I respect the right, and yes I'd say i'm left-leaning, which is why I love Maturin's opinions so much since he knows his shit. He has been able to persuade me based on his sources and credibility. Either way, no one can still define what is a 'loss or a win.' If Iran gains nuclear capability, is that a 'win' for Iran and a loss for the world, or is it a win/loss for everyone? Was the gun a 'win' over the bow? Technology is technology, and in it's literal definition the 'use of knowledge.' Good, bad, win, loss, are all relative. Does the Monroe Doctrine apply to the entire globe now? __________________ Think like a man of action, act like a man of thought. -H. Bergson

09-29-2009, 12:13 AM	#69 (permalink)
Kompressor Voice of Reason Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Illinois Posts: 8,066 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2,849 Times in 1,509 Posts	By that logic one could argue that Russia, India, or China didn't acquire nuclear technology by their own work. You're also assuming a sovereign nation is incapable of assuming the global risks of a nuclear attack, let alone wiping the holiest of holy cities and the Dome of the Rock. __________________ Think like a man of action, act like a man of thought. -H. Bergson

09-29-2009, 04:45 PM	#72 (permalink)
flappy YaHookan Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 807 Thanks: 48 Thanked 102 Times in 85 Posts	I hope Iran isn't the next big crisis, but it's a possibility. We need another 911 type event to steal the people's attention away from the ongoing government consolidation of power. __________________ <> <><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><> <>

09-29-2009, 04:27 PM	#71 (permalink)
~~stateofkane~~ Banned Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 560 Thanks: 20 Thanked 92 Times in 82 Posts	Iran has the right to develop nukes. The chance of a US invasion is slim either way.

09-29-2009, 05:04 PM	#74 (permalink)
flappy YaHookan Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 807 Thanks: 48 Thanked 102 Times in 85 Posts	" The French don't even have a word for entrepreneur. " George Bush I saw it on the internets. __________________ <> <><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><> <>

09-30-2009, 09:55 AM	#78 (permalink)
verklingen Radical Dreamer Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: texas Posts: 8,031 Thanks: 795 Thanked 1,470 Times in 940 Posts	any talk of crisis without an actual crisis occurring is empty fear. iran is not a crisis situation, but there are people (namely whichever shadowy forces are intent on pulling the strings in world affairs) who would benefit from creating a sense of impending crisis, i.e. fear. so yes, the propaganda machine is entirely vigilant in the pursuit of pumping out baseless fear to create an avenue to enact plans for further domination. it worked for iraq and afghanistan, but those are both dismal failures by all accounts. they've been trying with iran and n. korea for years and it's much ado about nothing. but it's all they've got so they'll run with it to their graves. it's not that i don't want to think about anything negative, i think about negative things all the time. i just recognize how the negativity is dissipating and i'd like to preempt the celebration and enjoy a peaceful life now. i went through a very beneficial phase of enduring fear which helped me grow by tempering my skills of critical analysis. since then i've parted with the trees to take in the whole forest, and within it i see a picture of peace developing despite frantic plots and conspiracies bent on stemming it. those plots are like a steam engine and can only continue moving forward when enough fear is generated among the populations who would be affected. i will therefor rally against it in all its forms __________________ “Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.” rip matt

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