Ron Paul still making sense

stoneric · 10-06-2009, 11:28 AM

Empathy and Trade
Are better than bombs and bribes, says Ron Paul

by Rep. Ron Paul, October 06, 2009

What if tomorrow morning you woke up to headlines that yet another Chinese drone bombing on U.S. soil killed several dozen ranchers in a rural community while they were sleeping? That a drone aircraft had come across the Canadian border in the middle of the night and carried out the latest of many attacks? What if it was claimed that many of the victims harbored anti-Chinese sentiments, but most of the dead were innocent women and children? And what if the Chinese administration, in an effort to improve its public image in the U.S., had approved an aid package to send funds to help with American roads and schools and promote Chinese values here?

Most Americans would not stand for it. Yet the above hypothetical events are similar to what our government is doing in Pakistan. Last week, Congress did approve an aid package for Pakistan for the stated purposes of improving our image and promoting democracy. I again made the point on the floor of the House that still no one seems to hear: What if this happened on U.S. soil? What if innocent Americans were being killed in repeated drone attacks carried out by some foreign force who was trying to fix our problems for us? Would sending money help their image? If another nation committed this type of violence and destruction on our homeland, would we be at all interested in adopting their values?

Sadly, one thing that has entirely escaped modern American foreign policy is empathy. Without much humility or regard for human life, our foreign policy has been reduced to alternately bribing and bombing other nations, all with the stated goal of "promoting democracy." But if a country democratically elects a leader who is not sufficiently pro-American, our government will refuse to recognize them, will impose sanctions on them, and will possibly even support covert efforts to remove them. Democracy is obviously not what we are interested in. It is more likely that our government is interested in imposing its will on other governments. This policy of endless intervention in the affairs of others is very damaging to American liberty and security.

If we were really interested in democracy, peace, prosperity, and safety, we would pursue more free trade with other countries. Free and abundant trade is much more conducive to peace because it is generally bad business to kill your customers. When one’s livelihood is on the line, and the business agreements are mutually beneficial, it is in everyone’s best interests to maintain cooperative and friendly relations and not kill each other. But instead, to force other countries to bend to our will, we impose trade barriers and sanctions. If our government really wanted to promote freedom, Americans would be free to travel and trade with whoever they wished. And if we would simply look at our own policies around the world through the eyes of others, we would understand how these actions make us more targeted and therefore less safe from terrorism. The only answer is get back to free trade with all and entangling alliances with none. It is our bombs and sanctions and condescending aid packages that isolate us.

flappy · 10-06-2009, 11:50 AM

Wow...that kind of said it all. Our founders were all about trade and non-involvement in foreign wars and the affairs of others

Here is a link to " Vintage" Ron Paul (1988). ATS Video: Ron Paul - The American Power Elite: (1)

It always fascinates me how one can disagree with this man. You will see them appear,tho, wait and see !

verklingen · 10-06-2009, 12:15 PM

this is exactly the kind of thinking that will awaken everyday americans to what we've wrought upon the world. . . and it's better late than never! in my view we have two options: keep up our belligerent ways and run this country further into the ground, or wise up to how our usual MO is depriving us and many countries throughout the world a chance to live in peace and abundance. ron paul is truly a badass. . . a fair (read: free) international commerce is just what the doctor ordered!

Dr. Nick Nasty · 10-06-2009, 06:14 PM

..or in the post-empire abyss we just look back and say mr. paul was right.

Makros_01 · 10-07-2009, 02:54 AM

well, he said what we all say overseas allready.
so cheers to ron paul.

Tricto · 10-07-2009, 08:17 AM

the only thing i've ever not agreed with him on was abortion, which he is against, but i think he said that it should be left up to the states to decide, which is good too.

i think that hypothetical scenario does a good job of putting things into perspective for people who think we should send more troops into the fray.

scottishbastard · 10-07-2009, 09:58 AM

Whether you're liberal or conservative, or in the middle - this is completely true. Some people are against the war because theyre just anti war. Some are against it because they dont think what we're doing is justified. Some are against it because they dont believe we should be involved on the offensive in foreign matters. This kind of covers it all.

flappy · 10-07-2009, 11:24 AM

War with none (unless we're attacked)
Business with all.

Canuck Wisdom · 10-07-2009, 02:29 PM

A very classical liberal standpoint.

Democratic peace theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

10-06-2009, 11:28 AM	#1 (permalink)
stoneric bougeman Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 5,223 Thanks: 431 Thanked 1,246 Times in 892 Posts	Ron Paul still making sense Empathy and Trade Are better than bombs and bribes, says Ron Paul by Rep. Ron Paul, October 06, 2009 What if tomorrow morning you woke up to headlines that yet another Chinese drone bombing on U.S. soil killed several dozen ranchers in a rural community while they were sleeping? That a drone aircraft had come across the Canadian border in the middle of the night and carried out the latest of many attacks? What if it was claimed that many of the victims harbored anti-Chinese sentiments, but most of the dead were innocent women and children? And what if the Chinese administration, in an effort to improve its public image in the U.S., had approved an aid package to send funds to help with American roads and schools and promote Chinese values here? Most Americans would not stand for it. Yet the above hypothetical events are similar to what our government is doing in Pakistan. Last week, Congress did approve an aid package for Pakistan for the stated purposes of improving our image and promoting democracy. I again made the point on the floor of the House that still no one seems to hear: What if this happened on U.S. soil? What if innocent Americans were being killed in repeated drone attacks carried out by some foreign force who was trying to fix our problems for us? Would sending money help their image? If another nation committed this type of violence and destruction on our homeland, would we be at all interested in adopting their values? Sadly, one thing that has entirely escaped modern American foreign policy is empathy. Without much humility or regard for human life, our foreign policy has been reduced to alternately bribing and bombing other nations, all with the stated goal of "promoting democracy." But if a country democratically elects a leader who is not sufficiently pro-American, our government will refuse to recognize them, will impose sanctions on them, and will possibly even support covert efforts to remove them. Democracy is obviously not what we are interested in. It is more likely that our government is interested in imposing its will on other governments. This policy of endless intervention in the affairs of others is very damaging to American liberty and security. If we were really interested in democracy, peace, prosperity, and safety, we would pursue more free trade with other countries. Free and abundant trade is much more conducive to peace because it is generally bad business to kill your customers. When one’s livelihood is on the line, and the business agreements are mutually beneficial, it is in everyone’s best interests to maintain cooperative and friendly relations and not kill each other. But instead, to force other countries to bend to our will, we impose trade barriers and sanctions. If our government really wanted to promote freedom, Americans would be free to travel and trade with whoever they wished. And if we would simply look at our own policies around the world through the eyes of others, we would understand how these actions make us more targeted and therefore less safe from terrorism. The only answer is get back to free trade with all and entangling alliances with none. It is our bombs and sanctions and condescending aid packages that isolate us.

10-06-2009, 11:50 AM	#2 (permalink)
flappy YaHookan Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 807 Thanks: 48 Thanked 102 Times in 85 Posts	Wow...that kind of said it all. Our founders were all about trade and non-involvement in foreign wars and the affairs of others Here is a link to " Vintage" Ron Paul (1988). ATS Video: Ron Paul - The American Power Elite: (1) It always fascinates me how one can disagree with this man. You will see them appear,tho, wait and see ! __________________ <> <><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><> <>

10-06-2009, 12:15 PM	#3 (permalink)
verklingen Radical Dreamer Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: texas Posts: 8,031 Thanks: 795 Thanked 1,470 Times in 940 Posts	this is exactly the kind of thinking that will awaken everyday americans to what we've wrought upon the world. . . and it's better late than never! in my view we have two options: keep up our belligerent ways and run this country further into the ground, or wise up to how our usual MO is depriving us and many countries throughout the world a chance to live in peace and abundance. ron paul is truly a badass. . . a fair (read: free) international commerce is just what the doctor ordered! __________________ “Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.” rip matt

10-06-2009, 06:14 PM	#4 (permalink)
Dr. Nick Nasty A PhD in Anarchy Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New York/New Jersey Metro Wasteland Posts: 1,095 Blog Entries: 5 Thanks: 576 Thanked 347 Times in 219 Posts	..or in the post-empire abyss we just look back and say mr. paul was right. __________________ The true [classical] liberal, in pursuit of fixed principles, must never have fixed political alliances. They must change based on the ruling rationale of the moment.- Lew Rockwell

10-07-2009, 02:54 AM	#5 (permalink)
Makros_01 Old School Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 639 Thanks: 17 Thanked 16 Times in 15 Posts	well, he said what we all say overseas allready. so cheers to ron paul. __________________ sometimes i'm drunk.

10-07-2009, 08:17 AM	#6 (permalink)
Tricto updating Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Midwest Posts: 439 Thanks: 184 Thanked 79 Times in 59 Posts	the only thing i've ever not agreed with him on was abortion, which he is against, but i think he said that it should be left up to the states to decide, which is good too. i think that hypothetical scenario does a good job of putting things into perspective for people who think we should send more troops into the fray. __________________ Human rights went on vacation Money took over a long time ago... Cuando la historia no se puede escribir con la pluma, se escribe con el fusil

10-07-2009, 09:58 AM	#7 (permalink)
scottishbastard ARGH! FUCK! KILL! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Castaic/Los Angeles California BITCHES! Posts: 1,956 Thanks: 32 Thanked 67 Times in 58 Posts	Whether you're liberal or conservative, or in the middle - this is completely true. Some people are against the war because theyre just anti war. Some are against it because they dont think what we're doing is justified. Some are against it because they dont believe we should be involved on the offensive in foreign matters. This kind of covers it all. __________________ Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do No matter what I ask of you You think you hold the high hand I've got my doubts I come from Chino where the asphalt sprouts ..... And even if I have to go to Claremont Well I guess I'll just have to go to Claremont Let me go Let me lie low Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do No matter what I ask of you And you send your dark messengers to tempt me I come from Chino so all your threats are empty - the mountain goats

10-07-2009, 11:24 AM	#8 (permalink)
flappy YaHookan Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 807 Thanks: 48 Thanked 102 Times in 85 Posts	War with none (unless we're attacked) Business with all. __________________ <> <><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><> <>

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