Communist Healthcare that Americans don't want , take 5.... - Page 3

Prophet Saddam · 10-09-2009, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John F. Kerry

will america continue to be unique and the center of the free market and the place where people dont think about rationing coupons for liver transplants and death panels that decide if your worth saving based on which political party you have donated money to in your life, or will it go the way of all the other socialists who gave up liberty for security?

Way to show your hand...if I didn't know better I'd think you were a fucking moron.

Troll has always seemed a more fitting title for you.

flappy · 10-09-2009, 11:46 AM

At least he doesn't think you're a moron.

What's wrong with eugenics anyway ?

stoneric · 10-09-2009, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury

You see the progression don't you? You tell me where the line get's drawn. Go ahead, tell me where the line is.

As I see it there are two things that will happen after socialized healthcare in the U.S.:

A: A utopia is born and we enjoy the fruits of our labor.

B: The federal government still stands and needs something else to do.

It doesn't end, don't you get it? There is no point in history where a government has effectively *stopped* assuming power before the point where it's citizens were bankrupted.

We should know this by now and trust our government accordingly.

I don't see anything progressing to the point you envision. I don't see the government taking over anything that hasn't been completely fucked up by the private sector. Would we need any health care reform if the present system, which you so dearly want to hang on to, was working?

John F. Kerry · 10-09-2009, 12:21 PM

^ so stoneric do u not see how it might possibly have been "in the governments interest" to fuck up our economy, and make it seem worse than it was- before the election - so that the dems could take power so starkly? i mean as far as conspiracy theories go i would say that is probably not only true but obvious that the dems played up how bad things were only to reap the rewards of it- and now they have nice salaries take nice vacations and have health care that is NOT WHAT THEY WOULD GIVE US WITH THEIR BILL!!!!!!!!

so the congress could by your logic keep fucking things up (ie the banking sector, the auto sector) and then take each one over in turn claiming the private sector "fucked it up".

if however we start with the premise that capitalism is the way to go, private ownership is infiniately preferable to public ownership etc etc, and only a VERY LIMITED AMOUNT OF REGULATION IS NECESSARY WHEN ABSOLUATELY NECESSARY, then i think we could find common ground, and move forward. but the dems wouldnt keep getting election bonuses from the new handouts they can offer if it went that way, so im not surprised it hasnt.

verklingen · 10-09-2009, 12:37 PM

^ so jwonder do you not see how it might possibly have been "in the government's interest" to fuck up the world trade center towers so congress could pass liberty-stifling legislation to tighten big government's grip on everyman? where was your critical cynicism then you lazy-minded rtard. . . your thoughts are really not worth consideration, in fact i wouldn't consider them actual thoughts as much as a tantrum of the mind

stoneric · 10-09-2009, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John F. Kerry

so the congress could by your logic keep fucking things up (ie the banking sector, the auto sector) and then take each one over in turn claiming the private sector "fucked it up".

No, that's your logic.

John F. Kerry · 10-09-2009, 01:05 PM

right i kinda agree that their along the same lines, so my question to u guys is why u would be so willing to believe the govt this time but not that time.

i mean imo its obviously much less likely that bush knew about 9/11 than that the dems saw political benefits in making the economy be fucked up and cnn helped them out by having ISSUE NUMBER 1 THE ECONOMY banners on their network every hour on the hour for 8 months before the election,

but regardless, so u guys were so suspicious of government accreeting (sp?) more power to itself back then but now u are all such champions of the government taking over private sectors and becomming more powerful, and u justify it by saying the exact opposite kind of things than u guys said about 9/11.

hyporcrisy?

i want people to get healthcare, just not a public option. i really truly think putting the gov't in charge of your intimate health care decisions is a recipie for disastor.... and if the people who are supporting it are only doing so because they dont have it now and will get some kind of health care (however crappy) if it passes, just realize that the reason u support it is not because it makes sense logically or that it will ulitamtely be good for our nation, but because u want health care- i can understand that, and empathize with it, cuz im not rich, but i think there are lots of ways for you to get what you want and need that dont end up ruining what many people think is the best healthcare system in the world- with a few minor problems ....

John F. Kerry · 10-09-2009, 01:08 PM

occasionally i come on here and having not signed in see all sorts of rude comments from saddam and verk just calling me names and ish, it pisses me off but then as soon as i sign in they go away so i guess its all good.

but like terry and stoneric and many of the rest of u guys seem to be able to disagree with me, but not talk all sorts of shit, or at least with the shit there is at least some point to be made, not just telling me im horrible and stupid for not wanting communism.

so props to u guys, and poo on the haters.

Makros_01 · 10-09-2009, 02:28 PM

sigh...
we have nationalised health care and the world hasnt caved in. In fact, since increased liberalisation of private insurance the rules of conduct for doctors with regard to what we call 'bulk billing' (which is when you go to the doc and pay like 17 buck and the government chits the doc the other 65 or whatever..) we've seen a DECLINE in health care outcomes.
It makes sense. If a business model is based on how many sick people get treated, then the ultimate outcome for that model is for everyone to get sick 50 % of their lives. enough to produce enough to give top the health care..
but hey? im just an aussie, where stitches in emergency are free. where the only cost of seeing the doctor most of the time is th 2 hour wait (well wa wa! youre fucking sick. wait!)

I ad this only as a viewport into what public health care would really be like, before it gets demonised into something way out of proportion..
governemnt consipracies to put you in cages grab your balls make you turn your head a cough.
hahah! you all own a damned gun if you want. we dont ? and we're free.
what's happening over there? everyones so paranoid!

JcP · 10-09-2009, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makros_01

what's happening over there? everyones so paranoid!

not everyone...just a loud bunch of my fellow countrymen.

Mercury · 10-09-2009, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry

Honestly though if I had to choose from a list of governments I would choose Communism in a heartbeat. If it were done right it would be a perfect society

Communism is okay if you've given up on your individuality and self-worth entirely. If you don't mind seeing one man and his inner circle elevated to God-like status through the use of firing squads and exhorbidant taxes. Yeah if you don't see something deeply flawed with that system, then yeah communism is great.

Ego Tripping · 10-09-2009, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JcP

not everyone...just a loud bunch of my fellow countrymen.

No shit...just a small, loud minority (you lie!). The rest of the country is doing just fine.

We were actually quite paranoid when only 34% of our population supported the guy in that seat.

JcP · 10-09-2009, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury

Communism is okay if you've given up on your individuality and self-worth entirely. If you don't mind seeing one man and his inner circle elevated to God-like status through the use of firing squads and exhorbidant taxes. Yeah if you don't see something deeply flawed with that system, then yeah communism is great.

using a model of a "failed" communist government to justify not agreeing with the principles OF communism is a lame argument.
Terry clearly stated that a communist government run correctly is his ideal system, not the examples that have been produced in the past/present.

John F. Kerry · 10-09-2009, 05:01 PM

thats like saying cars would be great if we had a car that didnt need any gas to run on and never broke.

it might, but on earth such a thing doesnt exist.

Mercury · 10-09-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JcP

using a model of a "failed" communist government to justify not agreeing with the principles OF communism is a lame argument.
Terry clearly stated that a communist government run correctly is his ideal system, not the examples that have been produced in the past/present.

yeah? my fantasy world works out pretty well too

stoneric · 10-09-2009, 07:23 PM

So is 12% poverty an example of a failed capitalist system? Or 90% of the wealth owned by 10% of the people? You seem to be worried about giving up something you don't even have.

JcP · 10-09-2009, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury

yeah? my fantasy world works out pretty well too

irrelevant. your dismissal of Terry was baseless. Communism run by level headed and compassionate leadership is as good a system as we've ever devised, imho.

I also urge you to apply your same skepticism when discussing Capitalism which, as far as I'm concerned, is a failed economic system justified simply by the "fantasy" of it working perfectly.

Mercury · 10-10-2009, 02:59 AM

Sorry JcP. Sometimes I just feel like I'm above this shit, you know? The government at large makes absolutely no sense to me, it only serves to hinder and conform. By and large I would say that their intentions are good but history does repeat itself. I know that and I will always remember it.

JcP · 10-10-2009, 08:59 AM

yea, I hear you. I just also see the need for a central government since humanity is not capable of living peacefully and compassionately without being 'forced' to yet.

Ego Tripping · 10-10-2009, 10:34 AM

Exactly. I do my part and hope others do the same...luckily, most people around me seem to be on the 'peace train.'

10-09-2009, 11:46 AM	#42 (permalink)
flappy YaHookan Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 807 Thanks: 48 Thanked 102 Times in 85 Posts	At least he doesn't think you're a moron. What's wrong with eugenics anyway ? __________________ <> <><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><> <>

10-09-2009, 12:37 PM	#45 (permalink)
verklingen Radical Dreamer Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: texas Posts: 8,031 Thanks: 795 Thanked 1,470 Times in 940 Posts	^ so jwonder do you not see how it might possibly have been "in the government's interest" to fuck up the world trade center towers so congress could pass liberty-stifling legislation to tighten big government's grip on everyman? where was your critical cynicism then you lazy-minded rtard. . . your thoughts are really not worth consideration, in fact i wouldn't consider them actual thoughts as much as a tantrum of the mind __________________ “Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.” rip matt Last edited by verklingen; 10-09-2009 at 12:39 PM.

10-09-2009, 02:28 PM	#49 (permalink)
Makros_01 Old School Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 639 Thanks: 17 Thanked 16 Times in 15 Posts	sigh... we have nationalised health care and the world hasnt caved in. In fact, since increased liberalisation of private insurance the rules of conduct for doctors with regard to what we call 'bulk billing' (which is when you go to the doc and pay like 17 buck and the government chits the doc the other 65 or whatever..) we've seen a DECLINE in health care outcomes. It makes sense. If a business model is based on how many sick people get treated, then the ultimate outcome for that model is for everyone to get sick 50 % of their lives. enough to produce enough to give top the health care.. but hey? im just an aussie, where stitches in emergency are free. where the only cost of seeing the doctor most of the time is th 2 hour wait (well wa wa! youre fucking sick. wait!) I ad this only as a viewport into what public health care would really be like, before it gets demonised into something way out of proportion.. governemnt consipracies to put you in cages grab your balls make you turn your head a cough. hahah! you all own a damned gun if you want. we dont ? and we're free. what's happening over there? everyones so paranoid! __________________ sometimes i'm drunk.

10-10-2009, 10:34 AM	#60 (permalink)
Ego Tripping Are you in? Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 13,461 Thanks: 229 Thanked 657 Times in 438 Posts	Exactly. I do my part and hope others do the same...luckily, most people around me seem to be on the 'peace train.' __________________ God appears, and God is light, To those poor souls who dwell in night; But does a human form display To those who dwell in realms of day.

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10-09-2009, 07:23 PM	#56 (permalink)
stoneric bougeman Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 5,223 Thanks: 431 Thanked 1,246 Times in 892 Posts	So is 12% poverty an example of a failed capitalist system? Or 90% of the wealth owned by 10% of the people? You seem to be worried about giving up something you don't even have.

10-10-2009, 02:59 AM	#58 (permalink)
Mercury Special Delivery Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: The States Posts: 8,190 Thanks: 294 Thanked 799 Times in 537 Posts	Sorry JcP. Sometimes I just feel like I'm above this shit, you know? The government at large makes absolutely no sense to me, it only serves to hinder and conform. By and large I would say that their intentions are good but history does repeat itself. I know that and I will always remember it.

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