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Old 10-11-2009, 12:45 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Global warming flew south for the winter, and is now attending to the bikini clad sheilas laying about on Australian beaches.



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Old 10-11-2009, 05:24 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by stateofkane View Post
It is a long term trend, which means neither side has much credibility.
that my non-friend is faulty logic. there are no sides. there are people that are presented with information, and based on their expertise in a given subject (usually a number of years at various accredited higher learning institutions), give an educated opinion. others, not so much.

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Who are the "experts" anyways? People who major in meteorology? Biosciences? Geology? What?
any number of fields. climate change is a multi-disciplined area.

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The articles in favor always say the "experts in their findings". And their predictions are always as dismal as it gets. No more crops, less freshwater, total chaos.
that's kind of what im saying, dude. you have to look at the article, and see what the news article cites. then, you can check that out, and see if it is relevant or not. most of the time, its beyond the comprehension of laypeople, which is why most people post news articles that poorly describe the actual findings of the peer-reviewed scientific journal article.

dismal? too bad. deal with it, dude. thats life. there are very many dismal things going on.
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Old 10-12-2009, 06:31 PM   #23 (permalink)
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thanks for the info guys. i dont mean to imply i have any knowledge whatsoever in the field, i just post what i find.

ssd- the thing with the number 10 years being significant to me is that the phenomena only cropped up in the last 50 years itself.

(wikipedia)Global warming is the increase in the average temperature of the Earth's near-surface air and oceans since the mid-20th century and its projected continuation.Global warming is the increase in the average temperature of the Earth's near-surface air and oceans since the mid-20th century and its projected continuation.

both numbers are a relative blink of an eye in the context of our planet. so how long would we need to see this reversal continue until its 'official' that the planet is cooling down and not warming up?

what exactly constitutes a 'long term trend' and what constitutes a 'short term trend' i guess is what im asking.
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Last edited by Waves; 10-12-2009 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 10-12-2009, 08:22 PM   #24 (permalink)
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It's all about corporate carbon credits. Global warming is a sham.
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Old 10-13-2009, 12:43 AM   #25 (permalink)
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what exactly constitutes a 'long term trend' and what constitutes a 'short term trend' i guess is what im asking.
they're relative words. Depends on who's using them and for what purpose, methinks.
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Old 12-27-2009, 03:32 AM   #26 (permalink)
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It's not headline news anymore because its and old subject that doesn't have the political impact it once had. Now its the "war on terror", democracy in Iran, illegal aliens, the H1N1 "panic" and selling vaccinations, etc. The political and media scene always focus on whatever gets attention and ratings/support.
Remember, the political and media scene are in the business of delivering what
they think their audience wants. But, the gatekeepers start with the fallacy that what they believe is rational, and if anyone takes offense, they are irrational. Well, there is a universal standard which is timeless, and frankly more durable than the standard they use, which is only a reflection of the status quo.
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Old 12-27-2009, 12:29 PM   #27 (permalink)
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We are all fucked

Even as scientists become more confident that climate change is a serious hazard, public opinion is shifting the other way. This seems irrational and it's challenging the basic premise that we have of an enlightened, democratic, modern society.

I believe as people start to feel overwhelmed by the scope of the problem, they simply turn away from the topic. We just don't want to know about it, so we are actively distancing ourselves from it or trying to protect ourselves from it. It's a form of denial.

On top of this there's a small but active group of people who have decided that climate change is a phony issue, and they're pretty mobilized right now, and they're amplifying their message across the country, and having a field day with the e-mails stolen from climate scientists. Skeptics have taken some suspicious-sounding statements in those e-mails as proof that climate change is a hoax. That's certainly not the view of mainstream scientists, but again, the public doesn't necessarily listen to scientists.

People trying to stir up doubt about climate change aren't working in a vacuum. There's a large and well-funded effort to block legislation that could hurt the industries most responsible for carbon emissions.

We are fucked.

NASA data: Greenland, Antarctic ice melt worsening

And there is very little that we are doing to effectively rectify the situation.

All this "green" bullshit from carbon credits to hybrid cars to rich Arab nations building eco-cities of tomorrow, change nothing. We are like a 400 lb man ordering a diet Coke, while still ordering four Big Macs.

We can't deny the immediate economic advantages to the cheap energy that our CO2 civilization affords. I am dismayed by all this, but I will not, as others do, bury my head in the sand and pretend the issue does not exist or is a plot for world domination.

The ONLY meaningful hope is a sudden drop in the earth's population through contagious disease.
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Old 12-27-2009, 12:40 PM   #28 (permalink)
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my problem oldman is 2 things

i agree that we are probably hurting the enviornment,

but if the main co2 contributors , china and india, dont participate in a program with us, regardless of moral or economic questions- the simple fact is that it wont work for us to reduce our emissions by our selves ... because the air is not seperated by country...

and 2nd , unless we are sure of what the problem is, and the science has been hijacked by some liberal hacks, so unless we know for sure what the issues are, instead of listening to al gore tell us the polar ice cap will be gone in 3 years or that global warming will result in terrible results which then dont show up , how do we know its not all just lies. ... and again this doesnt have anything to do with the politics, or the economics, or anything else but simply, if we dont know what the real issues are based on unbiased facts, then how could u be advocating a particular course of action based on what are probably miscontrued conclusions by people with agendas?... and they dont even include china and india. ...

i mean if were gonna fix the enviornment lets fix it, but if the us cant win a war alone it sure as hell cant stop global warming alone.
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Old 12-27-2009, 01:00 PM   #29 (permalink)
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John F. Kerry,

By "WE" I mean all of humanity, India and China included.

As far as the science being "hijacked by some liberal hacks," I guess NASA's scientific observations about the acceleration of polar ice melt would be included in this as well.

I am pessimistic about ANY government solution to this problem. I ended my rant by saying that, "The ONLY meaningful hope is a sudden drop in the earth's population through contagious disease." I did not bemoan the fact that our leaders cannot come to any sort of meaningful agreement.

By the time we reach that stage, we will have long ago passed the tipping point.

We are fucked.
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Old 12-27-2009, 04:40 PM   #30 (permalink)
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it's all the damn laughing gas those kids be huffing.
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Old 12-28-2009, 06:51 AM   #31 (permalink)
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does it occur to anyone that we're still technically in an ice age? after all, ice covers a sizable portion of our planet year-round. but the ice caps have been receding, on average, for thousands of years. it just so happens that in our lifetime they're making their final stand. with this in mind, i don't see why the ice caps can be used to indicate whether or not we're fucked. the ice age is coming to a close, completing a cycle that reaches back far beyond our beginnings in africa. and while i say this is to highlight the fact that it's gone on without us, it's still up for debate whether we've sped things along at all (i believe we probably have).

so there's no real tipping point to speak of, not for us anyway. that point was reached long ago when the glaciers deserted our planet's northern landmasses and made their final retreat to the poles. if we can finally start being smart about what we do and how we do it, we will have no trouble carrying ourselves into whatever world emerges from this shift in climate. and doing/committing to ANYTHING, among however many or few countries, is 100% better than continuing our careless rape of the environment and putting any changes off until later.
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Old 01-05-2010, 01:28 AM   #32 (permalink)
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CO2 worrying... cue the laughter.

Now, when the Sun starts getting really active again, we'll see some warmer temps.

Funny thing how that works.
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