kameelyun

Okay. In the wake of my questioning the moon landings and given some people's understandable skepticism of some of Alex Jones' claims, I can see some people on here rolling their eyes over the title of my thread. (And indeed, the phrase "new world order" occurs at the 0:00:31 mark!) Disclaimer: I do not blindly swallow anything and everything that any one film maker says, whether AJ or Michael Moore, or anyone in between. This film has been posted within the past 24 hours and I was just alerted; so I'm posting this thread at the same time I'm starting to watch. I will bump this thread up with some notes on the content as I go along.

Please, if we're going to have discussion on this, keep it civil without the hysterical tone; focus on the actual claims made by the people interviewed in the film, or the sources AJ cites to back up his own claims.

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"The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off." - Gloria Steinem

Ego Tripping

Cool, my post was deleted. Apparently, the NWO is in full effect, eh?

Fuck this place.

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kameelyun

Too bad you couldn't make your points without invoking the ridicule and condescending tone I specifically asked people to leave at the door; I clearly asked for constructive posts which address, in a level headed manner, the points made in the film. Instead you (predictably!) posted just to say how much you can't stand AJ and that you'd pass on watching the film.

As the thread initiator, I have to say that anyone who decides, from the get go, that they are not going to watch this film simply because the messenger is AJ, then they should simply refrain from posting. Your browser has a 'back' button.

For a few minutes I locked this thread because I didn't think a productive discussion would ensue from anybody here, but upon reflection, I've read through the last thread in which an AJ film was announced (Obama Deception) and while most posts did not address the specific content of the film (which is disappointing), and instead most people chose to expound on why they do or don't put stock in "conspiracy theories" in a very general sense, there were some good posts in there amongst some of the muck from the less thoughtful posters. So I'm going to give this thread another chance and hope that a productive discussion might take place. I've never up til tonight closed a thread and I hope it will be the last time I'm tempted to do so. So I'm unlocking the thread and welcoming thoughtful commentary. If this thread does turn into stupid bickering about how gullible AJ "followers" are, or for that matter if AJ supporters attack the other side and it becomes personal, I'm locking it once and for all.

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"The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off." - Gloria Steinem

verklingen

oh so you reported the post? good show!

edit- i'm not exactly addressing the video, but i promise i'm not being condescending or coming off like i know better either. i'm trying to look at this the best i can in a rational way and won't let my own opinions creep in to muddy the discussion. please bear with me and correct my points where i may be wrong!

i really can't get over the title of this vid. just to get an idea of how long he's been making videos, let's check out alex jones' filmography here: Alex Jones (radio host) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the first was called "america: destroyed by design." way back in 1998! he could use some imagination coming up with these names, but i digress. check out the movies section of alex's infowars.com to see the kinds of synopses he's provided for them: infowars: Alex Jones' Movies

i'm drawn to this one for police state 2000, released a full decade ago in 1999:

and its sequel, police state: the takeover:

well, you heard it. MARTIAL LAW IS HERE!!! i'm sure (quite confidently, having seen these films) alex compiled relevant articles and stories to support the claims made by him and others in both these and all his other videos. that doesn't take away from the fact that he's still making the same video, over and over, with the same claims that haven't quite happened yet but which he can still find information in news and interviews to support. not to sidetrack, but i noticed the source you posted in the moon hoax thread was compiled very recently, earlier this year, creatively deconstructing new information and building it up to support the claim that nasa has not run missions to the moon. given sustained conditions alex jones could easily carry this task another 40 years as well, you follow?

i hope the preceding explains well enough why i refrained from addressing the actual video content. i also find it boring and uninteresting, but i think i've explained my understanding of how, all things considered, this is all questionable speculation delivered in an unabashed, entertainingly sensational form. alex jones was the first to give me the example of world affairs playing out like a wwf match. in following with that analogy, alex jones and other conspiracy theorists seem like those obsessed fans who churn out fanfiction to develop their own sense of the official canon.

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“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.”

Ego Tripping

If you can't take the heat Kamee, stay out of the kitchen. I've never once reported any posts because, well, I'm just not that petty. For someone who touts freedom of speech, you're a bit of a hypocrite, I think. How can one simply address the video without addressing the man behind it? It's impossible because the man behind is has imbued the video(s) with their every being, much like it's hard to watch a Michael Moore video without addressing WHO Michael Moore is.

Anyway, you've shown some true colors. You're just as much of a mis-informationist as the very thing you're stating to "fight" against. You'd rather remove posts that harm the credibility of your theories rather than let them tell the stories themselves. Uber lame, brother.

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kameelyun

Ego:

I did not remove your post because it challenged the credibility of "my" (lol) theories. I removed it because it was a thoroughly negative and valueless post with nothing constructive in it whatsoever. And I didn't report you to anyone, I just deleted the thread and re-posted it, because you infused the thread with negative energy upon the very first repost. If I'm in the kitchen I can take some legitimate heat but not the putrid smoke from burnt cod. At that point I open the windows, clear the air and start over.

How can we address the film without addressing the man behind it? Quite simple; the first ten minutes you claimed to watch primarily feature interviews with well respected intellectuals like G Edward Griffin. No feedback whatsoever on the things they have to say?

And "freedom of speech" is a public sector thing. You are free to stand on the street outside my house with a sign telling me you hate me. You are not free to walk on my lawn with that sign. As such, the owners of this site have the freedom to delete this entire thread if they want to.

Verk:

Thank you for a more intelligent answer. With regard to this:

We have seen part and parcel of this frighteningly growing relationship between the military and police at the G 20 in Pittsburgh this year.

Things may not be going down hill as fast as AJ would have you believe, but societies' freedoms don't go downhill fast, for the most part. Things happen gradually, in peacemeal, so that by the time things have gotten bad it's too late.

From the Holocaust Museum to the Kentucky Derby to the St. Louis Arch, there are long lines and intense security checkpoints, often requiring shoes to be removed, and this all started because of the (inside job that was) 9/11. I have a Muslim last name and I share our President's middle name. I have been treated with suspicion more times than I care to count, the past 8 years.

We may not have black helicopters peering through our windows, but there is a reason why George Orwell's 1984 is an ultra classic piece of 20th century literature. The world needs people like Orwell and Alex Jones to imagine and predict the worst, because by them spreading their message they're doing their part to prevent it actually happening.

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"The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off." - Gloria Steinem

kameelyun

^Another negative and valueless post.

Edit: Which EGO thanked him for, lollll!

Check out infowars' and prisonplanet's traffic rankings at alexa. AJ is immensely popular so whatever else you might think of him, a heck of a lot more than "twelve" people are listening to him.

EDIT: Indeed, it's the no. 1 video at google:

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"The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off." - Gloria Steinem

Ego Tripping

Actually it's AJ that's the negative and valueless item at this point. You can only cry wolf so much.

A bit of a cop-out to produce Fall Of The Republic 2: Barack Obama's Second Term.

And Kamee, the people in the video are saying the same shit all the other videos said, he just got a new cast to read the same script. He's sensationalist, pure and simple. Fear sells and he's peddling it out just like the MSM.

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kameelyun

The best quote I liked from the first ten minutes was the analogy to Coke vs. Pepsi with regard to the two major parties. Jesse Ventura has been saying this for years and years. That's about the level of difference there is between the two parties.

With the exception of Ron Paul (and maybe Dennis Kucinich, I'm not sure), no one has the guts to challenge the legitimacy of the Federal Reserve as a private bank which controls the nation's money.

Neither party has the courage to reopen investigations, or at least speak openly about the JFK, RFK, MLK assassinations in addition to OKC and 9/11. Barack Obama has said that 9/11 is off the table for debate, even though at this point almost 1000 architects and engineers have signed the ae911truth.org petition rejecting the official explanation. BHO has ratcheted up the war in Afghanistan citing 9/11 as the justification. Boy am I glad I didn't sell out and vote for the lesser of two evils. I voted for Cynthia McKinney. She's the real deal.

Even within our own common ground of wanting cannabis to be as legal and as un-taboo as a glass of wine, we have Coke vs. Pepsi w/r to the two major parties. Sure, the Bush administration decided to be the ultimate nazis and go after mmj states, whereas the Obama administration has told the feds to respect states rights. But neither party embraces full legalization to where we could get a joint at the 7-Eleven. Because after all, we can't let the American public have toooooo much freedom now, can we?!?! I mean, alcohol's somewhat dangerous but when you turn 21 you can be trusted to be a mature enough creature after 2.1 decades to be able to use it responsibly. Oh, but cannabis... now that's SUCH an evil substance that even if you're 50, you can't be trusted to use it responsibly. That's essentially what the laws are saying. Yet even the democrats are chickenshit on this issue: "Oh, alcohol and tobacco cause enough problems... why make it worse? More carnage on the freeways! Sends the wrong message to our children!" So, Coke and Pepsi between the two parties.

The cannabis example is one of hundreds.

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"The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off." - Gloria Steinem

kameelyun

The people throughout the film saying this "shit" include:

Gerald Celante: leading trend forecaster.

Dr. Bob Bowman: former Director of Advanced Space Programs Development for the US Air Force in the Ford and Carter administrations. Mr. Bowman has a Ph.D in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering from Cal Tech.

Dr. William K. Black: professor of economics and law, author. Mr. Black was one of the government’s lead investigators and writers for the Savings and Loan scandal.

Dr. Francis Boyle: Professor of law and author.

Governor Jesse Ventura: former governor of Minnesota and author.

John Perkins: economist and best-selling author of "Confessions of an Economic Hitman"

Dr. Tim Ball: professor of climatology, author, lecturer.

Dr. Sherri Tenpenny: physician, researcher, best-selling author, lecturer.

Max Keiser: finance analyst and journalist.

Webster Tarpley: leading counter-government author and lecturer.

Alan Watt: author.

Wayne Madsen: a counter-government investigative reporter.

G. Edward Griffin: leading author on the Federal Reserve and counter-government information (and here)

George Humphrey: economist and author.

Numerous members of the US Congress and Senate

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"The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off." - Gloria Steinem

verklingen

you're welcome. like i said i'm just trying to break this down to help it all make sense to me.

this is mostly all that needs to be said: i don't believe things are going downhill! that's why i'm trying so hard to understand this. the "official" take and outlook on things that we're fed by people in the government and media is dire enough, and people like alex jones make it appear more dire still! you wanna talk about two parties? coke and pepsi? i'll write in, thanks. and i'll explain to you why.

ever since i started seeing things differently, i've been picking up on things going on around me and in the world that reinforce what i was coming to see. kinda like a self-fulfilling prophecy; probably not much unlike what alex jones experienced when he went from being a main-line conservative talk radio host to exposing the problems he sees in our government. everything lines up and it all seems to "make too much sense." i've gone the dreadful conspiracy route already(not just conspiracies related to us government), and it just doesn't satisfy me. nothing ever really changed with the knowledge of some new atrocity. my life kept on as ever. but since i switched gears and began elaborating the goodness and hope in our world, things did change! my life got better, i worked out issues, and i began seeing how the issues of our world were being worked out. the effect was very pronounced, and not only for myself but for those i come in contact with also. before, i elaborated only my own misery.

i didn't exactly give up conspiracies though. really i've only traded it for another that carl sagan turned me onto in my youth: the conspiracy of nature! looking at our world and its history (including the untold history illuminated by science), i see strong selective pressure for cooperation and unity. if alex jones and company's conspiracies are real, the people behind them are no less affected by this than we. the way they have played out the competition and division is bringing their system to its knees, and by maintaining the same tactics they are sabotaging their own operation. the simple truth is that present conditions -- which were set up by their own devices -- are too far-removed from where their work began, and the only thing left to do is fold. oh they'll try of course, maybe die trying. but that won't change the inevitable failure of everything they've worked for. in coming to see things like this, i've merely gotten a head start on the celebration

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“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.”

Dr. Nick Nasty

Alex Jones and his ilk are the broken clock right twice a day--unfortunately the other minutes are so warped it's hard to take it seriously. at least his theories blame both corporate parties.

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JcP

so I watched the video and am curious what you want to discuss?

all politicians = bad. Obama is going to announce the constitution and bill of rights are over and we are now part of a new world order. Democrats and Republicans are like Burger King and McDonalds. Apparently we need to "stand up" and say "no."

Kamelyn, the day Obama announces his plans to destroy America and void the US constitution, I will stand with you. Until then, this prophetic bullshit (sorry...) isn't interesting to me anymore. These people (alex jones especially) have been screaming from the hilltops since I can remember with the same message. And years have gone by, and I'm still here. I'm not forced to wear a yellow star. I'm not living in a FEMA concentration camp. The United States has not changed its name to "The United States of Exxon", and yet it's still imminent.

I think anyone with eyes can see our government is corrupt by re-election finances and all the rest. I just think its cynical to think that all of those people are somehow twirling their mustaches behind closed doors, cackling at their imminent master plan unfolding like some crappy knock off of the decepticons or KAOS. One of the speakers laughed at the fact that the American people have bought into this paradigm of "heros and villains", and yet that's what anyone listening to this is doing too. You just have different heroes and villains.
I know some politicians and their families. And while I cannot say with absolute certainty that they aren't meeting in secret rooms discussing how to take over the fucking world, I doubt it.
If you want to make the "world" your villain, go for it. I'm trying to view things a little bit more gray than this black/white bullshit.

you have every right to believe anything you want. But I heard absolutely nothing in that film other than the same claims I've heard for over a decade.

edit: PS--- do you still think the moon landing was a hoax? Mythbusters pretty much destroyed that argument with a couple lamps and a few rocks. And I had my doubts before seeing it, but when faced with proof otherwise changed my opinion. You?

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Just look out around us, people fightin their wars...
They think they'll be happy when they've settled their scores...
Let's lay down our weapons
and hold us apart
be still for just a minute
try to open our hearts
MORE LOVE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rev It's not what you see, it's that you're looking.

kameelyun

Well for one thing, thanks for painting me as a blind follower of everything Alex Jones says, even though I specifically said this in my OP:

Some of what AJ says has come to pass. Look at the clampdown on free peaceable assembly at the G20. But I do agree with those who invoke the "boy who cried wolf" analogy. When AJ constantly predicts exactly what's going to happen in the future and it doesn't materialize, his credibility is called into question.

Like I said before, Orwell's 1984 is a classic piece of literature, required reading by many high schools. We do not have black helicopters peering through our windows and Orwell predicted would have been the case by the year 1984. But the novel is a major piece of 20th century literature for a reason. Just as Orwell wrote many novels which are interrelated in terms of his world view, so AJ has made films. 1984 is the most well known of his novels. I think AJ will ultimately be remembered for one or two of his videos. If he is indeed the broken clock, right twice a day, then he was dead on target with his films which were strictly about false flag terrorism, particularly "Terrorstorm," which deals absolutely 100% with proven fact.

With regard to your moon question, which I wish you would have posed in the appropriate thread, my answer is: I don't know. Contrary to what you obviously perceive, my mind has never been made up. I would not bet my life on the issue one way or the other (unlike 9/11, with which I would bet my life with 10000% certainty that the official narrative is false). The question you posed to me is identical to someone saying "Do you still think 9/11 was an inside job? I read the Popular Mechanics article and it totally destroyed that argument." As someone who has studied the subject extremely thoroughly I (and many scientists) can tell you that's not true. Anyway, once again w/r to the moon, I don't know. And it's not something I'm ultimately going to obsess over because the moon landings didn't trigger 2 mid east wars, the Patriot Act, etc.

Well, after 13 posts it's clear this conversation has gone about as far as it's going to. I must say I'm still quite disappointed in the snide and sarcastic tones used against me simply because I posted this film here. Thanks verk for some insight into your personal view of the world.

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"The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off." - Gloria Steinem