JcP

maybe this is the entire crux of this issue. If pre-existing conditions are not coverable by our healthcare insurance industry, we do not have healthcare. We have healthcare for the healthy.

I find it inhuman and immoral to not treat and help my fellow man if they are sick, regardless of causality. If this is incompatible with the concept of "insurance" then we should not have a healthcare industry, we should have healthcare.

In my opinion, your admission that it's absurd to expect the institutions that provide healthcare coverage to cover certain people means those institutions are not the institutions I support. Healthcare should be available to everyone. Period.

This is why the capitalist model does not work for required services. If you can deny a required service to someone under a business model, that's inexcusable.

__________________

Just look out around us, people fightin their wars...
They think they'll be happy when they've settled their scores...
Let's lay down our weapons
and hold us apart
be still for just a minute
try to open our hearts
MORE LOVE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rev It's not what you see, it's that you're looking.

verklingen

qft

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“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.”

The Rev

I'm definitely a freer is better person when it comes to the marketplace. There really is no way that the economy can function productively with heavy legislated and central bank interference. The problem with the free market, however, is very much like the problem with social planning, in that you need people of true honesty and integrity to protect it. The difference, of course, is that with a free market you eliminate the possibility of bad things coming from good intentions (in planning).

For a free market to function, and not simply degrade into outright anarchy (or worse, back to governmental distortion), you need to have laws in place which guarantee and protect fundamental property and personal rights. Expecting the kind of people who aspire to political success to respect that kind of non-interference philosophy is really not too different from expecting them to interfere, but only with selfless intentions. It's just not going to happen.

The Founding Fathers set up checks and balances to attempt to force humans to act in ways which reflect only one side of their nature. The old "It takes two thieves to strike an honest deal" kind of philosophy. Yet, in spite of all that effort to force everyone to keep each other honest, the constitution has been used for ass wipe almost continuously since the nation's inception.

You just can't expect humans to respect each other when they stand to gain by not doing so. All you can do is the best you can to frustrate their efforts when they strive to misbehave, and even that is only going to slow them down. There's no road back, and we are never going to get less government without revolution, and that's all there is to it.



The Rev

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Ego Tripping

Hot damn, exactly. I said it before...health care should not be a commodity.

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Ego Tripping

And even if we did have one, what then?

My guess? A government. Just a different form of one.

States just need to take more matters into their own hands and that way big government is circumvented without the need of any revolution...and that movement will (and already has in many places) start in the communities, towns and cities.

But beware; this route requires people to take responsibility. Always easier to just complain about government rather than participate to improve it.

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stateofkane

Health care is a commodity. Stop blurring the lines of definitions to support your cause and if you don't believe me pull your head out of your ass and look at the stock market under: Merck. As the honorable Rush Limbaugh used to say: Words Mean Things.

So when does a service not become "required". You should be in favor of making food free, then gas, then housing, then...

JcP

who said anything about having healthcare be free? Pull the head out of YOUR ass, and then we can have a civil discussion.

since I never said this, please try again with a post (I assume, judging by your emotional reaction) disagreeing with my actual statements suggesting that a capitalist system combined with a necessary service doesnt work. Perhaps the addition of "without a universal option" would have made it clearer for you.

__________________

Just look out around us, people fightin their wars...
They think they'll be happy when they've settled their scores...
Let's lay down our weapons
and hold us apart
be still for just a minute
try to open our hearts
MORE LOVE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rev It's not what you see, it's that you're looking.

stoneric

^ Because of the ingrained notion that anything socialistic is bad.