stoneric

Obama Narrows Afghan Options: 34,000-Troop Escalation Favored
Massive Escalation Seems Modest Compared to McChrystal Demands

by Jason Ditz, November 08, 2009

In March, President Obama approved a roughly 21,000 man escalation in Afghanistan, which at the time was an enormous escalation of a war which President Bush had himself escalated just a few months prior.

This escalation accomplished little, and 2009 has ended up being the deadliest year by far since the 2001 US invasion. President Obama will therefore be sending another massive escalation to the nation very soon.

Advisers have reportedly narrowed it down to three options, a 20,000-25,000 troop escalation, a 45,000 troop escalation, and a “compromise” of about 34,000 which is seen as the favorite at the moment.

Though 34,000 is an enormous additional commitment, and will likely strain the military with 120,000 troops still on the ground in Iraq (and likely not going anywhere for quite some time) and around 68,000 in Afghanistan already, it is being treated as a very modest move.

It isn’t hard to see why, either. Gen. McChrystal’s much publicized 40,000 troop request quickly became 45,000, and then 60,000. By mid-October, the McChrystal Plan was calling for 80,000 additional troops. Though the military literally didn’t have 80,000 or even 60,000 additional troops to send, the fact that the idea was put out there will likely play to President Obama’s favor, and will make his 34,000 troop “surge” look like a reasonable response by comparison.

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Jesus, this shit is just unbelievable. I remember when the low end was 10,000 and the high end was 40,000. A leak here and a "60 minutes" appearance there and the nutjob general gets what he wants.

Mull D

This is the kind of shit I'm talking about when I say both the parties are the same.

Ego Tripping

The M.I.C. is unlike anything I've ever seen...it seems to pervade every single administration. No matter what course the domestic policy takes, America's foreign/war policy remains static. Some admins (like the previous) are obviously in bed with it...others, no matter what, still bow to it, even if it's reluctantly, like this is. Very curious. What's even more fucked is I'm sure the right is going to accuse Obama of "abandoning" our troops because he didn't send 60,000.

I really would love to know who is behind it all...I'm guessing whoever makes the money of those guns, bombs and bullets.

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zerodown

Its bound to happen until americans realize there is more than dems and reps, or liberals for that matter, when americans start rejecting this political culture and start caring for one another instead of caring for their bank account.

Citizens worship politicians, politicians worship corporations, corporations worship money, the vicious cycle has to stop somewhere along the line, corporations are happy with the money, politicians conform with whatever they can take from both citizens and corporations, that only leaves the citizens who are too entertained watching tv.

__________________
"I've seen people so poor all they got is money."

We have to learn to unlearn
Its not contradiction, its amendment
Not everything we see is reality
Not everything we hear is the truth
Not everything we're taught helps us grow
~Cultura Profetica

"La locura se lleva en la cabeza y las drogas en los bolsillos"
~Roberto Iniesta

stoneric

No. mccain would have given him the 80,000. He might have had to re-enlist and send over the already mind fucked, who have had multiple tours, but he would have somehow gotten the boots on the ground for the good general. War heroes are like that.

kameelyun

Man, I sure hope we smoke Bin Laden out of his cave, dead or alive...

9/11 Truth ends the 9/11 Wars

__________________
"The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off." - Gloria Steinem

Linkey

^im curious why they would combine global warming and 911 truth into one rally

Flamingnun

You're still looking for credibility after that abysmal NASA thread?



Seriously?

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zerodown

Power through unity?

Whats more powerful? Anti war group of 200 in one place and a global warming group of 200 in another place, or an anti war, global warming group of 400 at one place?

__________________
"I've seen people so poor all they got is money."

We have to learn to unlearn
Its not contradiction, its amendment
Not everything we see is reality
Not everything we hear is the truth
Not everything we're taught helps us grow
~Cultura Profetica

"La locura se lleva en la cabeza y las drogas en los bolsillos"
~Roberto Iniesta

kameelyun

Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth



And there is a very strict verification process there to make sure people's credentials are legit.

The collapse of the buildings is just one of many aspects of the official fable that doesn't add up.

The facts speak for themselves.

Top level retired military, intelligence officers, even political figures, and many many more, reject the official account.

We are in Afghanistan because of 9/11. I will continue to speak the truth no matter how annoying some might find my presence.

PS The word is undermine not undermind

__________________
"The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off." - Gloria Steinem

msicidron

which is probably Cheney...lol

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kameelyun

You should also appreciate the fact that I'm trying to educate you with facts.

The holocaust links I provided in that one thread were in no way anti-semitic nor did they deny the existence of the holocaust, but they did discuss several aspects of the holocaust that even mainstream historians no longer believe are true, i.e. lampshades, soap, and the existence of gas chambers at several camps where they were once thought to exist but no longer.

I was not denying the moon landing, I was questioning it. I made it clear that my mind was not made up. I even thanked JcP for directing me to the mythbusters episode which I thought did a more than satisfactory job at debunking several claims. So your memory of that thread is rather selective. Besides, I'd rather have an open mind and risk being ridiculed than accept everything I'm told without question.

Besides, I'm not asking you to believe me on 9/11.

I'm asking you to consider the architects, engineers, former military, intelligence, etc. who know what they're talking about.

This isn't 2006 anymore, where you could legitimately say "Where are all the experts who agree with you?"

At this point numerous credentialed people in all relevant fields (pilots, air traffic controllers, firefighters, etc.) have publicly rejected the official story. And people like you continue to close your ears and say "Blah blah blah Popular Mechanics blah blah blah..." even though PM's article and book have themselves been debunked six ways to sunday.

In France there was recently supposed to be a nationally televised round table debate on the subject, with 4 well known French figures to argue for the truth side, and 4 people to defend the official story. The debate was canceled because the station was unable to find 4 credible, credentialed people to defend the official story.

This thread is about the war in Afghanistan which was triggered by that day known as 9/11. 9/11 truth seeking and activism is especially important to mention in this thread because 9/11 is "the big lie."

Obama has towed the official line, even saying that there is no room for debate on 9/11. Obviously, 1000 architects and engineers disagree.

Mull D said "This is the kind of shit I'm talking about when I say both the parties are the same." How right he is.

Incidentally, would you say that these widows of 9/11 victims "undermind" the anti-war movement? If you were face to face with one of these women, would you tell her she's a paranoid conspiracy theorist?

__________________
"The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off." - Gloria Steinem

Dr. Nick Nasty

Empire: diluting humanity's capacity since year 0.

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DdC

Max Cleland is selling a book and did a c-span Q&A. Someone nervously asked him, round aboutly, if he thought 911 was an inside job. Or demolition. He kept coming back to Osama and Al Qaeda in Pakistan. Held tight to the premise that it was Al Qaeda. He didn't know why or really have anything to say in evidence other than the CIA picked up a message that he was planning on attacking the US because of Boosh 1. That makes no sense since Bin Laden and Sadamn weren't close. He mentioned that it was mostly Saudi's, mostly friends of Boosh in Saudi Arabia including the Bin Laden family. But no connection. It was Al Qaeda. So as long as the equation leaves out any other possibility of even inquiring. Its a dead end. Like censoring discussion about removing bogus Ganja laws.

Grassley Proposing Limits To Federal Drug Study

Then someone ask him about Diebold in Georgia, and no paper trail and how polls had him projected ahead the entire race. He basically thought without a paper trail there wasn't anything he could do. As long as he thinks his election was lost because of human error or funky mechanics, it dies. As long as we think these lying sons of a bitches only lie for some of us or for our benefit. We deserve a Biraq Obomba or a Nazi offspring like Rove Cheney and Junior.



I thought he wrote off the entire Q&A with a paved road of red herrings. I feel he suspects the truth is something else and still plays the game. Still an honorable man that plays games. At least that is what the mainstream thinks of as honorable. I prefer those with balls waging Peace. Lot more Patriotic than blindly following orders or finding a better paying gig shooting people. Dropping agent orange or Napalm. Or Kosovarian bombs from 30,000 feet juiced up on go go pills ain't no hero. The swiftboat idiots and liars, butchering the entire decorum of civility attacking him and Kerry. Moore had a segment in F-911 about sending the GOP ads and one was about Max not serving his country well enough by only giving both legs and and arm when he had an almost perfectly good arm left, just selfish. Same as the lies about the Ganjawar.

Those who label uncomfortable issues with buzzwords, especially over used or out of date or plain boring buzzwords. Are obvious. Save your energy unless you convert it into a PSA. The buzzwords are a clear indication something is being hidden. Something needs a red herring to keep anyone from taking it seriously, or knowing anything. Truth can fuck up a lot of well laid plans. Too many questions left to an inquiring population. Motive, Opportunity and Evidence is there in spite of not wanting to see it. Cleland mentioned that maybe in 30 years they should re-investigate it. They did the same for Kennedy. Lucas can do better moon landings. Rayguns was Boosh 1's puppet, B actor silver tongue to the rednecks. 2nd choice, but John Wayne died of nuke poisoning. All backed up with motive, opportunity and evidence. Boosh was CIA/Dyncorps since the inception after WW2. Through Ike, Kennedy, Bay of Pigs' CIA fuckup, Castro, Johnson then Watergate, same as 911. A big ass diversion.



Then on exit the Treasury is empty? We have to give him a parting gift of two bail outs, almost 2 trillion bucks. Plus another trillion for the pleasure of bombing babies in Iraq and sending 4000+ Americans home in boxes he would let the media show. If Rush isn't a reincarnate of Joseph Goebbels, he should get an academy award for his portrayal. Pure Nazi divide and conquer with words over swords of the Romans. From Rome Italy, home of the Fascists and the Pope and Scalia. Differentiate anything of substance between the skinheads, kkk or southern neocons or nazi's. By their acts they shall be known. Not what they broadcast on radio. See them for what they do. Not what they tell you they are doing. Or some excuse for doing it thats less evil. Bullshit but they won't or can't stop without us forcing them. Like Obambi said, You want it You have to make me do it. That wasn't a dare, it was an honest assessment of the situation. Ganja or Iraq.

Janet Edgar Hoover from Reno never died he/she became Klintoons Waco whacko. no thats comedy central.

Same as when ronnie kissed Joe McArthy's ass as he ingested his opium obtained from Anslinger. Lied about brain damage suffocating monkey's. Just say no without Nan's pisstaste. So he wouldn't have to be like Rush and go on the streets or doctor shop. Might give an edge to the Ruskies. Same reason we gave Ben Laden Stinger missiles and Sadamn chemical weapons. The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment, shooting up prisoners with syphilis, to study them in search of better treatment. These aren't sufficiently answered or even attempted. Fighting the Ganjawar several decades has taught me one thing for sure. They will lie. They do profit on their lies and they really don't give a shit about my health by smoking Ganja. If they lie about Cannabis, if they even try to outlaw discussion. That is a red flag. You can bet your bippy liars aren't selective. If they lie about Ganja they lie period.



Unlike Boosh dodging Nam in the Guard, when it was National and stayed home to deal with the Katrinas. Then he went AWOL for a summer to unload coke in Mesa Arkansas with Klintoon and Asa Hutchinson. Two more draft dodgers. I won the lottery, didn't have to dodge or go.

911 was an inside job. Iraq war was planned the day after Boosh sr lost to Klintoon. His CIA recruit in the early 70's. First narking in Berzerkley and then Oxford. Of coarse he didn't inhale. Hilary with the Law Firm sitting in on Watergate hearings all while the Controlled Substance Act slid through their slimy hands behind the focus of America. Trillion dollar business and most think what's the big deal, its only stoners.



Simple slight of hand, shell game, flim flam misdirecting and illusion. If everything was a lie, then no one would suspect. Teabog ditzo's wouldn't have any reason to suspect. Since the internet Ganja and Hemp has been able to break out of the box only seen by interested parties wanting it legalized. So most haven't a clue about them because school doesn't teach it. The public stigmatizes its use and the media helps them. Its all for the kids. Even the homeless ones since snitching on their siblings. Not the aborted ones from pesticides not used on Hemp. Now the net is full of information, logical physical reality based information. Tensile strength, medicinal use today or a thousand years ago. Still a minority even owning computers but a larger and larger number getting this information and questioning the lies. Now if they lie about Ganja would they lie about fill in the blank.



Or the collateral damaged from Lieraq. But for the white kids in the suburbs over a certain income. The ones who don't enlist for higher pay and bennies. So now we have a army of poor, mostly non-Americans getting paid. Haliburton rents out one employee for each soldier, keeps the total numbers of dead soldiers down and they're on their own for PTSD. We were praising and dealing with Hitler and Mussolini all during the 30's and the scam Marihuana Tax Act slid through with no problems. It isn't even so much true Fascism or Nationalist Socialism or so called Communism Fascism.

Its apathy and laziness. Its letting the politicians decide what's best. Its putting certain portions of the public on pedestals to admire and praise. Infallible celebrities until they act human then we pulverize them into dust. Politicians and Judges acting while actors and musicians politick. ? Its the money stupid!



The Military Industrial Complex or the Health Care Industrial Complex or the Prison/Police Industrial Complex or the Fossil fools/AgChemical Industrial Complex or Booze Industrial Complex. One of the most important, keeping citizens from remembering by killing brain cells. Not rejuvenating brain cells with Ganja, asking questions? Who in the hell do we think we are asking authoritah, rude dude. Just follow, don't ask, don't squeal on your company dumping dioxins. You might get in trouble. Have a beer or two and forgetaboutit.

Why vote? Why does the Government have a deed to my house? Why do they "register" my car? Has a cop in the entire history of automobiles ever found a stolen car? Why a license, if they made you drive better we wouldn't have so many wrecks. Wrecks make the Healthcare Industrial Complex happy. Booze contributes a hell of a lot more than Ganja. Hell pot even makes some safer drivers. Thats not good for business.



Ganja and Hemp take away Neurological diseases caused by the 90 million tons of poisons spewed on cotton. The Fossil fools and Banksters don't appreciate us stealing their profits. We didn't listen or GOPerverts didn't let them hear about condoms. We have too many people and more are buying into the American Scheme using the same Rockefeller oil and the Complexes party on.

Remove money from the equation. Courts, Military, Elections Healthcare and especially Congress. Instead of electing celebrities and making fortunes for the media every election. Having them sway voters with their non-bias bias against reality. Corruption happens. It always has and it always will and the forefathers figured it out and decided without checks and balances, even higher taxed wasteful redundancies if need be. It will not be able to maintain itself. Jefferson and then Lincoln warned of Corporatism removing the safeguards in pretense of safety or profits with eminent domain giving the railroads and cattle association huge land grants. Oil companies and those willing to give up a clean environment for all to profit a few. We have a majority, it is the workers in charge if they choose it. But who the fuck wants that. It Monday night man, the fucking Steelers are on. Fixing the world can wait.



Skolnick: Afghanistan War & Protecting the Oil Pipeline
Is a Pre-planned Military Disaster in the Works?
Might F1 and the neocons use a pre-planned military disaster in Afghanistan in order to try to bring down the Obama administration and/or F2 elements within the administration?

U.N. Ambassador's Oily Past
Phyllis Bennis January 08, 2007 tompaine.com

ENRON Entanglements to UNOCAL
By Tom Turnipseed CounterPunch January 10, 2002
Bringing the Taliban to Texas and Controlling Afghanistan

Afghanistan plans gas pipeline
Monday, 13 May, 2002
Afghanistan hopes to strike a deal later this month to build a $2bn pipeline through the country to take gas from energy-rich Turkmenistan to Pakistan and India.



IT'S ALL ABOUT OIL! FEBRUARY 12, 1998
As a result of sharply deteriorating political conditions in the region, Unocal, which serves as the development manager for the Central Asia Gas (CentGas) pipeline consortium, has suspended all activities involving the proposed pipeline project in Afghanistan.

Timeline of Competition between Unocal and Bridas for the Afghanistan Pipeline

Is an Oil Pipeline Behind the War in Afghanistan? by Bill Sardi

Emergency Protest against Escalation in Afghanistan



The U.S. Tilts toward Iraq, 1980-1984
Video Clip: "Shaking Hands with Saddam Hussein,"
Iraqi President Saddam Hussein greets Donald Rumsfeld, then special envoy of President Ronald Reagan, in Baghdad on December 20, 1983.

Corporations That Supplied Iraq's Weapons Program

A Single Shameless US Accomplice, Enabler, Aider and/or Abettor
You may feel disgusted by the hypocrisy of US plans to make war on Iraq and sickened at the inevitable slaughter of thousands of people. But if you could only vaguely recall the details of how deep the hypocrisy goes, then read on.

The US not only helped arm Iraq with military equipment right up to the time of the Kuwait invasion in 1989, as did Germany, Britain, France, Russia and others, but also sold and helped Iraq to integrate chemical weapons into their US-provided battle plans while fighting Iran between 1985-1988.


Shaking Hands: Iraqi President Saddam Hussein greets Donald Rumsfeld, then special envoy of President Ronald Reagan, in Baghdad on December 20, 1983.

A TIMELINE OF OIL AND VIOLENCE: IRAQ

A TIMELINE OF OIL AND VIOLENCE: AFGHANISTAN

July 3, 1979: President Carter signed a secret directive aiding opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul, calculated to induce a Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. (See: Interview with former President Carter's National Security Advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinski)
Mid to Late 1980s

Sept. 1986: In response to apparent successes of the Soviet Hind-D helicopter-gunship in Afghanistan, President Reagan authorized the shipment of Stinger missiles via Pakistan to Afghanistan. Overwhelmingly successful use of the Stinger resulted in neutralization of the Hind-D, and three years later (1989) to full Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan.



Hemp Powered Car Tours US, Canada
It's goal is to prove the viability of hemp as fuel, and promote environmental fuel technologies and drug law reform. The car will attend environmental festivals, such as SolFest, and drug law reform events.

Cannabis Fuel
*Remarkably, when considered on a planet-wide, climate-wide, soil-wide basis, cannabis is at least four and possibly many more times richer in sustainable, renewable biomass/cellulose potential than its nearest rivals on the planet - cornstalks, sugarcane, kenaf trees, ect. (Solar Gas, 1980; Omni, 1983; Cornell University; Science Digest, 1983; etc.)



DEA Hemp Ban

Petrol vs Hemp

Economics: Energy, Environment and Commerce



Selfish Colombian Indians Burying Their Dead Over Al's Oil

Stop the War on Colombians!
endingcannabisprohib ition.yuku.com

Vietnam All Over Again - The Colombia Drug War

Exporting DEAmocracy

US TX: OPED: Peace Prize Winning Obama Backs Military Growth in Colombia

US TX: Column: More Than One Route to Peace in Colombia



Live Earth and Al Gore’s Oil Connection
The corporate media has heaped praise on Al Gore following the international rock gig Live Earth. But to ask the U’wa people, from the tropical cloud forests of north-eastern Colombia, what they thought about Gore and Occidental Petroleum (Oxy), the oil company from which his personal fortune is derived, would be to receive a very different opinion.

The Real Reason for US Aid to Colombia 07/14/01
Far less known is Colombia's role in satisfying America's vast and growing petroleum habit. According to the US Department of Energy, US oil consumption rose by 15 percent between 1990 and 1999, rising from 17 million to 19.5 million barrels per day. During the same period, Colombia's oil production rose by about 78 percent, with most of the added amount going to the United States, making it, today, the nation's seventh largest supplier of oil.

CannabisNews Articles - Colombia

Spraying Misery

War on Drugs Takes Toll on Environment

U.S. War on Drugs in Colombia Ravages Farmers

We're Being Shot At!
The attack killed Veronica "Roni" Bowers, 35, and her 7-month-old daughter Charity,

Collaterally Damaged Guatemala

Kosovo The Current Bombings: Behind the Rhetoric

verklingen

oh yeah?

Obama said to want revised Afghanistan options - Yahoo! News

at least we have questioning and reasoning going on. i'm hopeful it will lead to something good, but it's already leading far away from where we'd be with that crazed melty creature at the helm

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“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.”

Ego Tripping

I personally think Obama WOULD pull out if it wouldn't cause such a shitstorm from the right. They are salivating at the prospect of another decade of war.

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stoneric

Yeah, I hope that article I posted is way off. And right you are on mccorpse. One can only shudder. Remember 'bomb, bomb bomb...bomb, bomb Iran? He'd have us so deep in shit it would have made bush look like a dove.

verklingen

imo, yes

obama is it least showing some degree of hesitation/discretion before giving the pentagon a blank check to conduct their every whim

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“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.”

stateofkane

Wrong... but he did oppose the Iraq war since before it's conception, leading me to believe the President doesn't make any decisions himself.

Or they are severely limited especially when it comes to foreign policy. I hate our government.

Ego Tripping

Yeah...I think you're right. It's like...'our government' really is just the military industrial complex. JFK was most likely going to pull out of Vietnam and he was assassinated shortly after that prospect started to become an actual reality rather than just a potential one. Almost like he was being made an example of.

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