SageTree

If people are asking for bans, no mods are noticing.

I think actually there was only one: J-wonder is back full force watch out for posts to moderate in A&P shortly. Referring more to others than J himself, I took it. That sounds like protection not banning to me Not that we are doing that EITHER!

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stoneric

stoneric is an asshole.

generals are professional kiss asses.

the job will never be finished because the job can't be described.

John F. Kerry

ok stoneric what would u like to see happen in afghnistan from today onwards? you cant go back in time and not invade. what would u like to see and how do u think what you want will contribute to a better world 10 years from now?

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Nasa under Obama

SageTree

Straight up Terry, but I can't stand to hear the cries of 'Nazi' when we come to make a thread coherent again....and I don't mean coherent in the FFA way

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Prophet Saddam

why are you dithering?

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stoneric

I didn't think I could be more obvious. In a word, leave. I can't say what the world will look like 10 years after withdrawing. I can look at 8 years of failure and imagine where we will be 2 years from now and have a good idea how the war way worked.

John F. Kerry

what kind of stupid ass logic is that? no offense, but seriously ,

just say fuck it and "look at 8 years of failure" and just wrap it up in your mind as a retarded thing to have done.

what king of logic is that? a its not american, we always suceed because we are resourceful motherfuckas. b it makes absolutely no sense, you are looking 100% at the past, nothing at the future, whether GOOD or BAD- if the taliban comes back in control and joins with pakistan where bin laden is hiding it could easily slide into a lawless nightmare area again which would be infinately worse than whats happening now, and like infinately times 100 worse then what might result if we stay an intelligent but not stupid course, and set up some kind of un and nato sponsored government there .


afghanistan is like africa, in the sense of our moral obligation to it (and i stress the LIMITED nature, but yes existant nature of our moral obligation to places like africa and the rest of the poor world) , but its even more so because they caused 9/11. what more do u want me to expound upon. its all in the past... u seem to disagree with my overall view, word. but in the end the world will be shittier overall if we just pull a saigon retreat when theres totally no need to - we have great protection for troops, we have fuckin drones that are sci fi amazing and can do almost anything ... and if we have a david petreus style strategy we will no doubt do what americans more often than not do which is finish and suceed by genius and creativity and steadfastness...

the short answer is that the cost of winning in afghanistan is much cheaper than the cost of losing there.

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Nasa under Obama

John F. Kerry

its hard to say what winning might have been in vietnam


i suppose its hard to say if it would have ever been possible for south vietnam to continue existing, but it doesnt seem like it would have been that hard, nor really changed overall the future of the world that much .

with afghanistan the thing is that al qaida attacked us from there so its not like they might be anywhere else,

this is the exact part of the world where that shit comes from and its the place we need to scucceed in,
as far as vietnam i dont think in hindsight that the same was true.

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Nasa under Obama

Ego Tripping

^ Mhmm.

If Vietnam was a disaster in hindsight, how is it illogical to assume we won't be saying the same thing about Afghanistan?

There's no cost of losing in Afghanistan. A.Q. is just as able to attack us whether we are there or not. If anything, we are more vulnerable due to distraction. It's not like they have missiles that "attacked" us. It was people plotting and circumventing US Security and they can do that from anywhere, not just Afghanistan. If the US really was bent on "protecting the homeland", they would be here at home, not roaming impossible terrain looking in caves.

Just as Vietnam, there's an ulterior motive to our presence in the Middle East and that includes Afghanistan. In fact, perhaps it's our very presence that invoked 9/11, not our lack of it.

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stoneric

The past is the war. What the fuck else can I base anything on if we're talking about the war?

The Taliban has never left, they live there. They control 80% of the country. The corrupt government can't control one fucking city. We already have a nato sponsored government there that just got elected by fraud. And by the way, the Afghanistan/Pakistan border is still a lawless nightmare.

Somehow if we grit our teeth and use good old american king david resolve we can achieve victory. And I use stupid ass logic?

Afghanistan was the cause of 9/11? That's funny.

"we have protection for our troops, we have fucking drones that are sci-fi amazing...." So much for that moral obligation to the Afghans.

stoneric

Where did they re-fuel?

And even general mccrackhead(thanks for the nickname)says al qaeda's presence in Afghanistan is basically non-existent.

ziplock

It's not really a matter of winning/losing, succeeding/failing, anymore. Now it's just damage control. Both theaters were epic failures. Now we're just trying to keep it from getting too out of hand and pick up the pieces of our shattered dignity. What the best method of damage control is, is a hard and legitimate question. Force seems to not be all that effective though, and we make the false assumption that our enforced order will be maintainable once we've left.

In both cases we basically took on the responsibility for a clusterfuck from "rulers" that had established their own order (which in hindsight could be argued to be more successful) through a method that we condemned and deemed unjustifiable. However, now that it's our responsibility, we are now employing similar methods (violence) to enforce our own order and scrambling to find justification for it. How ironic...

How to go from here is a difficult situation to approach. It's, imo, inarguable that there is a responsibility that needs to be met before we can consider ourselves "done."

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Insanity is the only sane reaction to an insane society.

Prophet Saddam

fucking.epic.



and try not to be such a dick.

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