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Old 05-07-2010, 03:03 AM   #1 (permalink)
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$6 billion more worth of obama subsidizing, this time its "Cash for caulkers" lolllllllll

House approves $6 billion cash for caulkers program - May. 6, 2010

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NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- House lawmakers on Thursday approved a $6 billion measure that aims to provide rebates to homeowners who invest in energy efficiency improvements -- but not without a fight from Republicans.

The bill, officially known as the Home Star Energy Retrofit Act but better known as "cash for caulkers," has been touted by President Obama since December as one of the signature pieces of his administration's larger job-creation strategy.

The act "is a common-sense bill that will create jobs, save consumers money, and strengthen our economy," President Obama said after the House passed the measure. "We have workers eager to do new installations and renovations, and factories ready to produce new energy-efficient building supplies."

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., estimates that the legislation will create nearly 168,000 jobs in construction, manufacturing, and retail.

The House vote of 246-161 went through with support from the Democrats and overwhelming rejection from the Republicans. The vote simply authorizes the creation of the program; it does not appropriate the funds needed to run it.

The Senate is expected to take up the legislation this summer and determine how to pay for the program, which is likely to be controversial.

How will homeowners cash in?

The bill would fund rebates of as much as 50%, up to $3,000, for energy-saving efforts such as insulation improvements and the replacement of windows, doors, heating and cooling systems. The installations will have to be completed by qualified contractors.

Homeowners that choose to make improvements on their own will receive rebates of up to 50%, to a maximum of $250, on air sealing and insulation products.

The bill also includes reimbursements for those who conduct comprehensive energy audits and reduce their home's total consumption. Homeowners who trim their energy usage by at least 20% can receive up to $8,000 in rebates.

Pelosi said that the bill will cut energy bills by up to $500 a year for some 3 million families.

The bill will also distribute $600 million to states for grants to help mobile homeowners replace pre-1976 models with energy-efficient ones.

Political wrangling

Through a motion to recommit, a political maneuver used by lawmakers to send a bill back to the committee that drafted it, House Republicans added their own conditions to the legislation.

They incorporated language that forbids the program's financing from expanding the federal deficit and bars the bill's funds from being allocated to contractors who have sex offenders as employees.

The Republican stipulations also disqualify from the program homeowners with an annual income of more than $250,000 from the program and require that the rebates be sent directly to homeowners instead of being provided through stores, contractors or other parties.

House Energy and Commerce committee Chairman Henry Waxman, D-Calif., accepted the changes so that the bill can move forward for a vote in the Senate.

Pelosi called the Republican changes a "poison pill" and said House members would "work with the Senate to fix this flawed language."
so we need to hire government approved contractors to do home improvements, the majority of which can be done for $2.50 cost of a caulking gun+tube .

plus its 6 billion dollars to force create 168k jobs? how about the other 19 million unemployed. how can they think this type of shit is sustainable? is he going to keep creating jobs for these people that he so desperately has to intervene on behalf of after they finish these minor repairs and upgrades repairing shit? no they are going to be jobless again in a few months. all these mini New Deals are as fucking ridiculous as they are pointless.

why cant they just offer the rebates for people who reduce their energy consumption and not subsidize another industry in the process.
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Old 05-07-2010, 03:20 AM   #2 (permalink)
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do you think the new deal worked? There's two ways to look at things like this...

1) we need to stop this kind of "job creation" all together.
2) we need to supersize this stuff and invest in much larger projects like a national high speed rail system, infrestructure updates and expansion, etc.

I'm not an economist, so I can't REALLY debate this, but for my money (and it is, after all), I think Obama needs to stop pussyfooting around and do something big. This piece-meal stuff will have piece-meal results.

I do know, however, that that 6 billion creates jobs AND decreases energy consumption/demand from consumers. (and it's not JUST caulking -.- . It's window replacement, heating unit replacement, all sorts of things).

So while I can't fathom the numbers, there's a fair amount of savings on the backend for people who do this, which would, in effect, be that rebate for reduction in energy consumption...this plan just does it in a way that ALSO creates a fair amount of jobs. Plus, unless I'm reading that wrong, you CAN do it on your own and get a rebate too...

So again, not an economist, but I'm much more inclined to think we need MORE of this kind of thing, not less. But wtf do I know...
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Old 05-07-2010, 03:56 AM   #3 (permalink)
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i didnt mean most of the possible work that can be done is only caulking. but those energy reduction goals can absolutely be met if every american went out and bought a caulking tube and worked on resealing their windows and put a strip of rubber tubing underneath their doors.

20% isnt that much especially if you have older windows or several doors without the little rubber strip at the bottom.

we do not need to hire 168k contractors to do that kind of work. sure 168k jobs sounds nice but this kind of spending is why our deficit is ballooning out of control. i might be able to support something like a nationwide light rail type project if its not a trillion dollars but if its going to cost 6 billion for home improvements on already existing properties imagine what they would budget to actually build something new that size.
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Old 05-07-2010, 04:09 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Amen to the high speed rail. its about time Americans tell the airlines to shuvit with their ridiculous services and prices--but that'll never happen anytime soon
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Old 05-07-2010, 04:59 AM   #5 (permalink)
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yea, light rail is a much better idea then this..oh well, come next year the congress will be Republican, so there's a glimmer of hope...IE: thedeficit is huge
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Old 05-07-2010, 07:56 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FourtySecondRip View Post

we do not need to hire 168k contractors to do that kind of work. sure 168k jobs sounds nice but this kind of spending is why our deficit is ballooning out of control. i might be able to support something like a nationwide light rail type project if its not a trillion dollars but if its going to cost 6 billion for home improvements on already existing properties imagine what they would budget to actually build something new that size.
I don't think you're reading it right. "we" aren't hiring anyone. If YOU (or any other american) needs help doing the work these rebates will help do (insulation, upgrading of appliances) this money will create the environment where those jobs will be in needed not by mandate but by supply/demand...

IE: by providing incentive for people to upgrade, more people will need help, ergo more people will be employed by qualified companies, more people will be needed at retail stores to sell the stuff, more people needed to make them, etc.

This bill does NOT create a 168k strong "government caulking" division or something. These aren't going to be government workers on the program. The job creation is estimated by how many people are going to be needed on the workforce if people have a rebate incentive to purchases goods and services.

the 6 billion is for the rebates...in essence the subsidizing of weatherizing homes for people who haven't done it. And while you can argue that it's deficit-increasing, I would (perhaps ignorantly) disagree.

The Deficit is not an up and down concept. While it might increase the deficit in the short term, the effects of the $ saved by families in the LONG term, I think, will decrease the deficit by increased spending. In essence: it's a localized tax cut. Wars, waste, and increased spending that has no flipside...that's the spending we should be wary of.

It's like in Sim City...if you take out a loan to build a useless POS thing, you're not going to make your money back. But if you take out a loan and build a huge swath of residential blocks (assuming you have a high need for Residential), the rent/taxes that come in from those houses, over time, will pay for loan 5-fold. Short term: more debt. Long term: more money.
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Old 05-07-2010, 08:04 AM   #7 (permalink)
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and that's the thing with rebates, you have to buy something that's obviously over-priced
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Old 05-07-2010, 08:23 AM   #8 (permalink)
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no you don't. Rebates help people who WANT to buy something. "have to" isn't in this conversation.
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Old 05-07-2010, 08:26 AM   #9 (permalink)
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the obviously over-priced sure is
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