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Old 06-09-2010, 10:25 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Second Death in Two Weeks w/ Border Patrol "Teen Shot Dead" Cartels or Border Patrol same difference



Mexicans seething over Border Patrol killing of teen | Houston & Texas News | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

Preliminary reports on the incident indicated that U.S. officers on bicycle
patrol "were assaulted with rocks by an unknown number of people," Border
Patrol Special Operations Supervisor Ramiro Cordero said Tuesday.

"During the assault at least one agent discharged his firearm," he said. "The
agent is currently on administrative leave. A thorough, multi-agency
investigation is currently ongoing."

The shooting happened beneath a railroad bridge linking the two nations, and
late Tuesday night a banner appeared on the bridge that said in
English: "U.S. Border Patrol we worry about the violence in Mex and murders and now you. Viva Mexico!"


******************** ******************

Less than two weeks ago, Mexican migrant Anastasio Hernandez Rojas, 32,
died after a Customs and Border Protection officer shocked him with a stun
gun at the San Ysidro border crossing that separates San Diego and Tijuana,
Mexico. The San Diego medical examiner's office ruled that death a homicide.

Rojas came to the United States at the age of 14
and lived most of his life in San Diego, California and worked as a construction worker.



Outrage over Mexican migrant?s death in US Border Patrol custody - RT Top Stories
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Old 06-09-2010, 10:30 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I wish I could feel bad for both of them... but I can't...
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Old 06-09-2010, 10:57 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I hope you don't feel good for the Border Patrol?!
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Old 06-09-2010, 11:03 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Not at all, I don't think I could feel good for either side tbh. I don't agree with using excessive force in any case, but I also don't agree with condemning U.S. immigration policies when the country that they are fleeing from is far more harsh on illegal immigration.
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Old 06-09-2010, 11:06 AM   #5 (permalink)
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No borders, no nations.

Simple solution.
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Old 06-09-2010, 11:14 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerodown View Post
No borders, no nations.

Simple solution.
Simple?

Who is going to protect those that can't protect themselves?
Who would ensure that those that would murder, steal, etc get punished?
Who is going to stop a group of people from invading and killing you for the land you're on and the things you own?

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Old 06-09-2010, 11:22 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Cops in Mexico couldn't break up a school girl party,

and you want them to close their drug corridor using pickups and baseball caps,

While The Cocaine Cartels use submarines, submachine guns, and ex-military (US trained in tactics, weapons, and surveillance)?


So the people try to escape the Drug Corridor Meat Grinder.


Even I feel kinda bad and guilty everytime I drop a dime.
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Old 06-09-2010, 11:34 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessorMurder View Post
Cops in Mexico couldn't break up a school girl party,

and you want them to close their drug corridor using pickups and baseball caps,

While The Cocaine Cartels use submarines, submachine guns, and ex-military (US trained in tactics, weapons, and surveillance)?
No, I think if they truly wanted to fix their country they'd ask for help from other nations that are friendly, ask for training for the police/military, hell some of the problems could potentially be solved by allowing the law abiding citizens access to firearms to protect themselves and their families, instead afaik Mexico has very tight and strict gun laws. On top of that the president comes to a country that is supposed to be friendly and tells our congress that the current immigration laws (that the Federal government doesn't even bother to enforce) are abhorrent and that we should be ashamed and outraged at Arizona for attempting to enforce it's own immigration policy...


EDIT: Also if we started treating people with addictions as someone that is sick instead of as a criminal, and changed our drug laws we could see more of a weakening in the Cartel's power, or of course we could shut down the CIA (which funds and aids in transporting illicit substances from Mexico across the border) .
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Old 06-09-2010, 11:40 AM   #9 (permalink)
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kaptnemo,

are you aware that all of mexico's problems arise from us-lead drug prohibition? they can't fix their country because our policies are ensuring there is ample reason for drug cartels to terrorize people any way they can to maintain and expand their drug-running routes.

imo you're starting somewhere in the middle and missing the bigger picture. their problems start with us, not ours with them
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Old 06-09-2010, 11:51 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Please see the edit in my post..

In regards to the Cartels terrorizing people, if the citizenry were allowed but law to arm themselves, they would be able to fight back. I'm not saying that the U.S. has nothing to do with those problems but blaming all of those problems on the entire U.S. isn't right at all either. Like I said it's my belief that changing our attitudes on drug laws would be a substantial blow to the cartels, dismantling the CIA would be a larger more powerful blow, BUT allowing the people of Mexico a means to protect themselves is paramount.
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Old 06-09-2010, 11:54 AM   #11 (permalink)
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sorry i got in before seeing your edit

i'll have to disagree though. arming mexican civilians seems like treating the symptoms when the disease can be cured much more easily by ending the need for violence
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Old 06-09-2010, 11:56 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Cartels are so pervasive in America that were are currently typing on a recreational forum devoted to one of their products.


This last post was brought to you by the Gulf Cartel*


The Gulf Cartel (Spanish: Cártel del Golfo) is a Mexican drug cartel based in
Matamoros, Tamaulipas. The cartel is present in 13 states with important
areas of operation in the cities of Nuevo Laredo, Miguel Alemán, Reynosa and
Matamoros in the northern state of Tamaulipas; it also has important
operations in the states of Nuevo León and in Michoacán.[1] The Gulf Cartel
traffics cocaine, marijuana, methamphetamine and heroin across the U.S.-
Mexico border to major cities in the United States. The group is known for its
violent methods and intimidation, and works closely with corrupt law officials
and business people in Mexico and the United States. [citation needed]

Aside from earning money from the sales of narcotics, the cartel also
imposes "taxes" on anyone passing narcotics or aliens through Gulf Cartel
territory. The cartel is also known to operate protection rackets, extorting
money from local businesses, and to kidnap for ransom money
.



You want mom and pop to go up against that?

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Old 06-09-2010, 12:02 PM   #13 (permalink)
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IMHO, if the U.S. were to completely change it's prohibition laws tomorrow there would be more violence from the cartels in an attempt to scare our lawmakers into reinstating prohibition, just so they could maintain their stranglehold on the government of Mexico. I don't really see a way of completely removing the "need" for violence in this situation, I'm all for being diplomatic and trying to work things out with out violence, I don't think it would work in this case.

@Professor - I don't have all of the answers, or even most of what someone would want to hear, I'm just a former soldier that thinks if the Mexican population truly wants to be free of the dickholes that are ruining their country they should stand up be armed and fight back, I'd feel the same way if (which it is) shit here in the U.S. were as out of control as it is there... but as I said I'm a firm believer in shutting down the main source of any cartels protection... the CIA... I honestly think that would be a major blow, as would the Mexican and American populations removing any and all corrupt officials from office...
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Cool, keep being a hypocrite then.
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Old 06-09-2010, 12:12 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Without hyperbole, it is a War Zone.

Drug War, Cancun - 6 Bodies in Cave, 3 with Hearts Cut Out - Rochester, News, Weather, Sports, and Events - 13WHAM.com

Cancun, Mexico (AP) - A gruesome discovery near Cancun. Six bodies were found in a cave,

three of them with their hearts removed.

Mexican authorities are trying to determine the identity of the four men and two women.

The letter 'z' carved on their abdomens may be a reference to the Zeta drug gang.

More than 22,700 people have died since Mexico's president sent soldiers
and federal police to battle the drug cartels at the border.

In a separate incident in the southwestern part of the country, armed men in
two cars barged into a girl's 15th birthday celebration and sparked a gunfight
leaving three peopledead and three wounded.
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Old 06-09-2010, 12:16 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Don't you feel bad for the boy that got shot by the bike cop

or the family man with five children deported after decades?

Both connected to the this Immigration/Drug Violence Corridor Distraction

Not facing the real issue and blaming the boy and an old man over immigration policy?
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Old 06-09-2010, 12:16 PM   #16 (permalink)
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^^^ Which is why the Mexican government should be asking the nations that it's friendly with for help, either in training it's police and military to combat them, or inviting them to help stamp out the problem, but I believe that couldn't happen unless the CIA were shut down.

Quote:
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Don't you feel bad for the boy that got shot by the bike cop

or the family man with five children deported after decades?

Both connected to the this Immigration/Drug Violence Corridor

Not facing the real issue and blaming the boy and an old man over immigration policy?
A. I never blamed either of them for the immigration policy
B. I do feel for the kid that was shot by border patrol, I think it was a gross use of force and I think the officer should be removed from any position where that could happen again. I also feel for the border patrol agent, he was trying to do his job and end up being pelted with rocks from who knows how many people. Do I agree with the border agents reaction not at all, I don't think either side was in the right on this. As for the man that was deported my family immigrated here during WW2 while Italy was still on Germany's side, but they came here and followed the procedures to become citizens, and further once they were citizens they considered themselves Americans, not Italian-Americans, just Americans they contributed what they had to the "melting pot", they didn't try and force the school systems to teach Italian so that their kids could understand, they made their kids learn english so they could communicate with their fellow citizens (listen I could go on about how I feel about the immigration problem in this country I don't think there's any need as I'm not sure that attempting to discuss it via the internet will help either cause).

Yes the U.S. government hold some responsibility to help fix the Drug cartel problems in Latin America, but so do the governments of those countries with the problem, further so do the people that live there... I'm sorry maybe it's just my up bringing in a very military family but if you've got a hard problem to face, running away doesn't do any good...
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Old 06-09-2010, 12:37 PM   #17 (permalink)
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They tried that already and it gave birth to the Zetas,
an ex-military Anti Drug Cartel Commando Unit.

Which escalated the violence.


Gunmen kidnap former Mexico presidential candidate | World | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle
By DUDLEY ALTHAUS
HOUSTON CHRONICLE
May 16, 2010, 12:11AM
A prominent attorney and political power broker, Fernandez de Cevallos is considered a
patron of both Mexican Interior Minister Fernando Gomez Mont and Attorney General
Arturo Chavez, key players in Calderon's crackdown on organized crime.

Diego Fernandez de Cevallos, 69, the 1994 presidential candidate of the National Action
Party and a political mentor to Calderon and to senior members of his Cabinet, went
missing shortly before midnight Friday as he arrived alone to his ranch in Queretaro
state, about a two-hour drive north of Mexico City, officials said.

Searchers found “signs of violence” in the politician's vehicle. Mexican media and online
postings — one by a former National Action Party president — reported that Fernandez
de Cevallos was dead. But a spokesman for the Mexican attorney general's office denied those reports.



No one is safe in Mexico.
Just a little compasion for those "left behind"?
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Old 06-09-2010, 12:46 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I've got compassion for those that are suffering in Mexico, there's honestly no reason for it other than a bunch of cocksuckers trying to prove who's got the biggest balls in order to earn/pillage what they want from those too weak to defend themselves. I don't believe we'll see an end to the drug cartel business until:

a. The CIA is shut down, and any/all who participated are held accountable,
b. Once the CIA is out of the way sending in US special forces alongside the Mexican police/military to round up arrest or if need be kill every last cartel leader/member,
c. Changes would then need to be made to not just the U.S.'s drug policy but the majority of the worlds drug policies need to be changed to help stamp this madness out.
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Old 06-09-2010, 12:50 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Just a little Zeta update:

Los Zetas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This group of highly trained gunmen was first hired as a private mercenary army for
Mexico's Gulf Cartel. Since the arrest of its leader, Osiel Cárdenas Guillen, as well as
other events, the two entities became a combined trafficking force, with the Zetas
taking a more active leadership role in drug trafficking. Since February 2010
Los Zetas have gone independent and became enemies of its former employer/partner,
the Gulf Cartel.

Los Zetas are led by Heriberto "El Lazca" Lazcano and are considered by the Drug
Enforcement Administration (DEA) as probably being the most violent paramilitary
enforcement group in Mexico, capturing tourists from the U.S and holding them for
ransom. Los Zetas have expanded their operations to Italy with the 'Ndrangheta.

Hey Paisano, what do you know?


The 'Ndrangheta (from the Greek word andragathía (ἀνδραγαθία) for "heroism"
and "virtue"; Italian pronunciation: [n̩ˈdraŋɡeta])[p] is a criminal organization
in Italy, centered in Calabria. Despite not being as famous abroad as the
Sicilian Cosa Nostra, and having been considered more rural compared to the
Neapolitan Camorra and the Apulian Sacra Corona Unita, the 'Ndrangheta
managed to become the most powerful crime syndicate of Italy in the late
1990s and early 2000s. While commonly lumped together with the Sicilian
Mafia, the 'Ndrangheta operates independently from the Sicilians, though
there is contact between the two due to the geographical closeness of
Calabria and Sicily.
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Old 06-09-2010, 12:56 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I you like the CIA,
You'll love these guys:


Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation (WHISC or WHINSEC),
formerly the School of the Americas (SOA; Spanish: Escuela de las Américas) is a United
States Department of Defense facility at Fort Benning near Columbus, Georgia in the
United States.

Between 1946 and 2001, the SOA trained more than 61,000 Latin American soldiers and
policemen. A number of them became notorious for human rights violations, including
generals Leopoldo Galtieri, Efraín Ríos Montt and Manuel Noriega, dictators such as
Bolivia's Hugo Banzer, some of Augusto Pinochet's officers, and the founders of
Los Zetas, a mercenary army for one of Mexico's largest drug trafficking organizations,
the Gulf Cartel. Critics of the school argue that the education encouraged such
internationally recognized human rights violating practices and that this continues in the
WHINSEC. This is denied by the WHINSEC and its supporters who argue that the alleged
connection is weak. According to the WHINSEC, the education now emphasizes
democracy and human rights.
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