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Old 06-23-2010, 08:41 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by stoneric View Post
Ya. His plan is working as well as the other nutjob generals plans have worked over the last 9 years.
This "war" is officially longer than Vietnam. Keep the machine and the profits for private industry subsidized by the tax payers funded American war machine. Lets face reality. *not entirely specific to your quote as I agree with it*
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Old 06-23-2010, 09:29 PM   #42 (permalink)
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The WOT hasn't been longer than Vietnam (not yet, anyway). Kennedy began sending "advisors" over in 1961, and the war ended (for us) in 1973. With 9/11 being the beginning of the current conflict in the middle east, that's ~9 years vs. ~13 for Vietnam. Of course, if you start counting from Desert Storm, then that's another matter, but that wasn't part of the "war on terror" that started with W.



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Old 06-24-2010, 07:37 AM   #43 (permalink)
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yea kinda weird, im pretty surprised he would do this...

on the other hand, king david has saved our ass before, and clearly he wants the good pr that will come from being the third comming...

he seriously is starting to look like presidential material in 2012, the man is about the only person i know who sacrifices his own well being for america.
How did he save our ass? Iraq is still a shithole. There is no reconciliation. The surge was a failure.

How does he sacrifice his own well being? Never seen a general on the front line. I'd bet king david never seen a front line in his life. He sacrifices others for his own well being.
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Old 06-24-2010, 11:16 AM   #44 (permalink)
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I dont like his haircut, or his face.
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Old 06-24-2010, 12:07 PM   #45 (permalink)
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I heard he plans his battles with GI Joe and COBRA figures.
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Old 06-24-2010, 01:50 PM   #46 (permalink)
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....ps if u guys want some good reading, check out the counter insurgensy COIN field manual written by general petraeus a couple years ago- this is the book that saved iraq and has been being followed in afghanistan and now petraeus brings his own gravitas to the new job.
Iraq isn't saved. Again, the neighborhoods had been cleasned before king david started his surge. He had already started paying the sunnis not to fight. The surge's purpose was to quell the violence so there could be reconciliation among the opposing factions. The violence was already on the decline as mentioned and there is no reconciliation. It's been 3 years and we're still there and people are still killing each other. Now you say we're following that same plan in Afghanistan. How's that working out?
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Old 06-24-2010, 03:15 PM   #47 (permalink)
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The "war" is for a cut into resource dispersal...It's just a matter of who gets to pass out the tickets for who gets to rape the earth the most before she dies...I don't want to be here for that end...
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It has zero political or cultural value. It is reactionary in the worse sense: a gnarled wailing of a million broken losers joined in the comradery of hate and petty personal grievance.
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Old 06-24-2010, 08:45 PM   #48 (permalink)
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A little more on McCrystal

After Cpl. Pat Tillman, the former-NFL-star-turned-Ranger, was accidentally killed by his own troops in Afghanistan in April 2004, McChrystal took an active role in creating the impression that Tillman had died at the hands of Taliban fighters. He signed off on a falsified recommendation for a Silver Star that suggested Tillman had been killed by enemy fire. (McChrystal would later claim he didn't read the recommendation closely enough a strange excuse for a commander known for his laserlike attention to minute details.) A week later, McChrystal sent a memo up the chain of command, specifically warning that President Bush should avoid mentioning the cause of Tillman's death. "If the circumstances of Corporal Tillman's death become public," he wrote, it could cause "public embarrassment" for the president.

"The false narrative, which McChrystal clearly helped construct, diminished Pat's true actions," wrote Tillman's mother, Mary, in her book Boots on the Ground by Dusk. McChrystal got away with it, she added, because he was the "golden boy" of Rumsfeld and Bush, who loved his willingness to get things done, even if it included bending the rules or skipping the chain of command. Nine days after Tillman's death, McChrystal was promoted to major general.


Kudos to the guy on my listserve who reminded me of this... I'd forgotten McChrystal had had a hand in the Tillman debacle.

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Old 06-24-2010, 09:36 PM   #49 (permalink)
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did they guy on your listserv tell u he was the mastermind of the operation which killed abu musab al zarqawi the most wanted man in iraq after saddam ?


...and did he also care to remind u that mcchrystal was recommended for the job because of his "operational" successes- being a long time special forces commander, and involved in actual operations and with his nose to the grindstone.


.... ? just curious?


u can disparage the guy all u want, im happy petreus is in charge, and i think mcchrystal basically said what most of us already think, maybe shouldnt have said it to william miller of rolling stone tho.
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Old 06-24-2010, 10:06 PM   #50 (permalink)
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My point had absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the general in question is competent, rather that we cannot ever "win" this war, not in the sense we usually consider winning a war. . .All that's left is to leave before we cause even more damage and suffering to the innocent people we have brutally subjugated. THAT was my point.
I agree with you there.


Somewhere I read that winning a war was like winning a hurricane or a forest fire. That always sounded right to me.

I've been in a war by the way. The first Gulf war. I was FA, but I mostly changed tires in a motor pool in Saudi Arabia. Right before the ground war I was reassigned to the gun line again. The whole thing was scarry-strange.
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Old 06-24-2010, 10:13 PM   #51 (permalink)
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terry is a pretty interesting dude, i appreciate the people who take the "war is bad" tact more so when i know arent pigeonhole type people like some on here.


to have vets like old man, and guys like terry saying "War is bad" is a nice and reassuring part about our country....as much as i think what we are doing is necesary, i dont think too many people love war.
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Old 06-25-2010, 12:07 AM   #52 (permalink)
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im questioning his judgement and actions. plain and simple.


....and say what u will about bush, but his experience as governor clearly showed in the way he could command the public and make it seem like he was in charge and take ownership of things ,etc etc.... today its almost like we dont have a president, hes so out of touch and trys to hide from problems and blame others for them rather than saying simply 'the buck stops with me' like any president should.
The problem is that obama's actions are not based on his judgement, hes just playing his role, why can't you see politics is just an act? The teleprompters slowly scroll down the script, do you doubt that mcchrystal's comments weren't planned? Dude, this is major league politics, shit doesn't just get out of control without someone pulling the strings.

But really, it doesn't surprise me, the problem is that your expectations are too low, I mean you favor bush over obama because at least he could "make it seem like he was in charge" . I don't know about you, but we have a representative type of government as opposed to a participative type of government, and until we change that I would demand my leaders don't just "look the part".
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Old 06-25-2010, 07:34 AM   #53 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=John F. Kerry;51929171]did they guy on your listserv tell u he was the mastermind of the operation which killed abu musab al zarqawi the most wanted man in iraq after saddam ?


...and did he also care to remind u that mcchrystal was recommended for the job because of his "operational" successes- being a long time special forces commander, and involved in actual operations and with his nose to the grindstone.


.... ? just curious?

Oh thank you! Now his covering up of an american soldier being killed by friendly fire to save the president embarrassment, at the expense of the soldiers family, suddenly seems almost patriotic.
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Old 06-25-2010, 07:40 AM   #54 (permalink)
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u can disparage the guy all u want, im happy petreus is in charge, and i think mcchrystal basically said what most of us already think, maybe shouldnt have said it to william miller of rolling stone tho.
What are you talking about when you say mccrystal said what most of us are already thinking? And I'm thinking if you agree with whatever it is, the "most of us" you speak of must mean fellow neocons.
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Old 06-25-2010, 07:42 AM   #55 (permalink)
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I agree with you there.


Somewhere I read that winning a war was like winning a hurricane or a forest fire. That always sounded right to me.

I've been in a war by the way. The first Gulf war. I was FA, but I mostly changed tires in a motor pool in Saudi Arabia. Right before the ground war I was reassigned to the gun line again. The whole thing was scarry-strange.
By the ground war, do you mean the mass surrender?
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Old 06-25-2010, 08:45 AM   #56 (permalink)
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I am wondering JFK if you can explain to me what 'governance is exactly? As opposed to 'governing'. And why you used it.
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Old 06-25-2010, 09:23 AM   #57 (permalink)
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By the ground war, do you mean the mass surrender?
Yes, in retrospect that is what it was. While it all unfolded however, none of us knew what was happening. None of us knew what was going to happen. I just KNEW that I was going to die in a gas attack.

Sometimes I wonder how many people died (if any) from our artillery. Improved Conventional Munitions are a motherfucker.

I joined the army right after thru-hiking the Appalachian Trail in 88. I thought they'd send me to Germany where I'd drink a lot of beer, fuck some German chicks, and earn 20,000 for college. I never imagined Saudi Arabia and Korea.
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