Bush: "Damn Right" I Approved Waterboarding

**SageTree** · 11-09-2010, 08:28 AM

In his new book.

Quote:

(Washingtonpost.com) By Washington Post Staff Writer R. Jeffrey SmithHuman rights experts have long pressed the administration of former president George W. Bush for details of who bore ultimate responsibility for approving the simulated drownings of CIA detainees, a practice that many international legal experts say was illicit torture.

In a memoir due out Tuesday, Bush makes clear that he personally approved the use of that coercive technique against alleged Sept. 11 plotter Khalid Sheik Mohammed, an admission the human rights experts say could one day have legal consequences for him.

In his book, titled "Decision Points," Bush recounts being asked by the CIA whether it could proceed with waterboarding Mohammed, who Bush said was suspected of knowing about still-pending terrorist plots against the United States. Bush writes that his reply was "Damn right" and states that he would make the same decision again to save lives, according to a someone close to Bush who has read the book.

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Bush previously had acknowledged endorsing what he described as the CIA's "enhanced" interrogation techniques - a term meant to encompass irregular, coercive methods - after Justice Department officials and other top aides assured him they were legal. "I was a big supporter of waterboarding," Vice President Richard B. Cheney acknowledged in a television interview in February.

The Justice Department later repudiated some of the underlying legal analysis for the CIA effort. But Bush told an interviewer a week before leaving the White House that "I firmly reject the word 'torture,' " and he reiterates that view in the book. Reuters and the New York Times first published accounts of the book's contents Tuesday evening.

Since the 2003 waterboarding of Mohammed and similar interrogations of two other CIA detainees in 2002 and 2003, the agency has forsworn the technique, which involves pouring water onto someone's face while strapped to a board, to convince them they will shortly drown.

President Obama and Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. have both said waterboarding is an act of torture proscribed by international law, a viewpoint supported by a handful of Republican lawmakers on Capitol Hill and opposed by other Republicans. But the Obama administration has not sought to punish former Bush administration officials for approving it.

The 26-year-old United Nations Convention Against Torture requires that all parties to it seek to enforce its provisions, even for acts committed elsewhere. That provision, known as universal jurisdiction, has been cited in the past by prosecutors in Spain and Belgium to justify investigations of acts by foreign officials. But no such trials have occurred in foreign courts.

Tom Malinowski, the Washington advocacy director for Human Rights Watch, said, "Waterboarding is broadly seen by legal experts around the world as torture, and it is universally prosecutable as a crime. The fact that none of us expect any serious consequences from this admission is what is most interesting."

M. Cherif Boussiani, an emeritus law professor at DePaul University who co-chaired the U.N. experts committee that drafted the torture convention, said that Bush's admission could theoretically expose him to prosecution. But he also said Bush must have presumed that he would have the government's backing in any confrontation with others' courts.

Georgetown University law professor David Cole, a long-standing critic of Bush's interrogation and detention policies, called prosecution unlikely. "The fact that he did admit it suggests he believes he is politically immune from being held accountable. . . . But politics can change."

More coverage:
Haartz: Bush's memoir explains US can't appear to be doing Israel's bidding
The Gaurdian
Calagary Herald: Bush admits failures....
Fox News: Bush tour emotional, sicked, disgusted, not apolgetic

No comment.....You decide.
SageTree

farmergiles · 11-09-2010, 11:02 AM

String the torturing fucker up. And Blair as well.

John F. Kerry · 11-09-2010, 11:06 AM

i see where bush is comming from in being belligerant, and frankly, if it was u who was responsible for protecting us from terrible wmd attacks and shit, you might just want to to anything you could to... so i can understand his feelings as a fellow human being...

but if it were me, i would 1. express them in a way like i just did where u say what could i do i had no choice i had to try to get the info from these few high level dickheads and 2. say yea i might have taken that a step too far but in the heat of the moment i had to make a decision and 3. its a tough call which is the highest priority of a president, to protect the country, or to uphold the constitution....cert ainly they are both number 1 and 2.... but when u have to break one of them to do the other it should be done with regret and apprehension that it cant be acomplished any other way.

thats how i would have said it.

in that sense, saying damn right is almost as tone deaf as obama saying that people wanted his socialist healthcare nightmare. bush is talking to the right wingers and not to everyone, the same way obama talks to pelosiites and no one else. (on the other hand obama is STILL the president bush is a private citizen).

....by the way a torrent of the interview is up i dled it already

cantSEEme · 11-09-2010, 11:47 AM

he (and his cabinet) created the patriot act, suspended habeas corpus, and approved torture as a means of investigation.

do ppl really think he is gonna be all "i was wrong".

lolno.

also, LOL @ bush thinking the worst part about his time as president was when kanye said "bush hates black ppl".

farmergiles · 11-09-2010, 11:54 AM

j- so it's ok if a head of state approves the use of torture by their country's armed forces?

What about the Geneva Convention? Why did we hang all those nazis after ww2?

**SageTree** · 11-09-2010, 12:54 PM

I certainly didn't expect an apology but I certainly didn't expect a 'damn right'.

I am not saying I could have done better, but that is sort of like comparing a man who trained his whole life for the office...... and me.

Never will I condone it myself or 'understand' why one human will torture another. I'm sure it seems 'in the best interest' at the moment, but there is so many humanist reasons beyond and including the facts about the methods. Just another syndrome of the short term gain, long term loss culture.

One of my biggest problems with Bush, the man, is the he was such a proud Christian and as a person of faith, this really bothered me. But I don't think you have to be religious or spiritual to see the common sense in 'The Golden Rule', however.

"Thou shalt not kill", to me, doesn't pass for ok, just because it's with in an inch of trying to.

A total cop out as a human, outside his political role. I fail to find justification for these acts. The 'politics' of the whole issue really isn't the for front issue for me, here. A couple might be president, be we are all human, that is what presides for me.

On the opinions of Obama's "deaf ears/ not caring about public opinion/" , while giving people a human right, verse " deaf ears/not caring about public opinion", and stripping people of human rights is pretty damned different if you ask me.

I think it's safe to say Bush stripped the people of his own country of certain freedoms, "while in office" just like good ole' Obama, who is stripping them of their right to die sick in the streets.

Other than the debt accrued and tax dollars spent, there isn't much similarity.
And let's face it. I doubt that the US is spending the same money on health care as it is war. That would be......talkin' crazy

!!!
Same action, maybe same intention, but to me very different ends to those means.

Whatever Bush's reasons etc are, whether he feels bad or cares at night, I don't wish him harm, I just hope that he is able to live with the karmas that he has created for himself and countless others. The abusers often are left with a form of scaring in their own minds so it's not at all confusing to seem regretful but not apologetic. However logically its a paradox, to me.

I don't know what the best course here really could have been, but I feel confident in saying what I wouldn't entail in the policies no matter how over or under trained I was to step into this role. Like I said, I wish him no ill will, but I do wish, that at least in private, that he is working this out for himself.

As for the book, it is a public release, so he's speaking to all of us, imo. I don't feel it's ok to shrug it off as 'It was for his target audience" This is a former president, not any old author.

"May all sentient beings have ease, peace, safety, health and find the lasting causes of happiness"

In kind,
SageTree

farmergiles · 11-09-2010, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SageTree

One of my biggest problems with Bush, the man, is the he was such a proud Christian and as a person of faith, this really bothered me.

You're having a laugh Sagey, no way was dubya any kind of functioning christian, coked up fratboy maybe. Easy to drum up a bit of support in the bible belt by being anti abortion.

Blair was purportedly a christian, but IMO fell into the same crusading bullshit fashionable in the Middle ages.

But they are both guilty of warcrimes- water boarding torture bullshit and also the fraud that was womd.

**SageTree** · 11-09-2010, 01:27 PM

I agree Giles, but if you are going to tout it and get elected for it by people who are as well, then I feel that could have been THE biggest campaign lie he committed, as I believe there ought to be some responsibility for what you say you are.... but I guess this is politics and not philosophy after all

Xil · 11-09-2010, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmergiles

j- so it's ok if a head of state approves the use of torture by their country's armed forces?

What about the Geneva Convention? Why did we hang all those nazis after ww2?

because they lost.

farmergiles · 11-09-2010, 01:38 PM

I guess 99% of politicians are cynical nowadays but dubya was blatant.

Joe Stalin has a lot to answer for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xil

because they lost.

There's a bit more to it than that though, mossad were right to off Eichmann. Haven't heard too many complaints from Germany.

**SageTree** · 11-09-2010, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xil

because they lost.

.... not quite

They were losers, maybe... but you can't hang a man for that either.

Try genocide for $500 Xil.

The Rev · 11-09-2010, 01:46 PM

If torture and war achieved their desired outcomes, the world would be a paradise by now. If people can't figure that out by now, we deserve the extermination at our own hands that awaits us.

The Rev

**SageTree** · 11-09-2010, 01:48 PM

Rev, What IF they did achieve their goals

jk....

sorta.....

stoneric · 11-09-2010, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John F. Kerry

i see where bush is comming from in being belligerant, and frankly, if it was u who was responsible for protecting us from terrible wmd attacks and shit, you might just want to to anything you could to... so i can understand his feelings as a fellow human being...

but if it were me, i would 1. express them in a way like i just did where u say what could i do i had no choice i had to try to get the info from these few high level dickheads and 2. say yea i might have taken that a step too far but in the heat of the moment i had to make a decision and 3. its a tough call which is the highest priority of a president, to protect the country, or to uphold the constitution....cert ainly they are both number 1 and 2.... but when u have to break one of them to do the other it should be done with regret and apprehension that it cant be acomplished any other way.

thats how i would have said it.

in that sense, saying damn right is almost as tone deaf as obama saying that people wanted his socialist healthcare nightmare. bush is talking to the right wingers and not to everyone, the same way obama talks to pelosiites and no one else. (on the other hand obama is STILL the president bush is a private citizen).

....by the way a torrent of the interview is up i dled it already

You make me want to barf.

**mothernature** · 11-09-2010, 02:28 PM

Every time I see Bush he just seems dumber and dumber.

SmokeaJoint · 11-09-2010, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoneric

You make me want to barf.

In this case, ditto.

**SageTree** · 11-09-2010, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mothernature

Every time I see Bush he just seems dumber and dumber.

This would greatly save money in 'Dumb and Dumber" sequels.... see now there is good financial conservation.

The Rev · 11-09-2010, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SageTree

Rev, What IF they did achieve their goals

jk....

sorta.....

The professed goal of any violence, whether it be war, torture, or incarceration and prohibition, is always to make things better. However, they never do. At best, it divides groups of people against each other, and at worst, they precipitate more violence, attempting to correct the wrongs of the initial acts.

The only person who actually achieves his goals through violence is that person who wishes to create suffering, resentment, anger and death. That is a person we, in our more enlightened moments, rightly identify as insane.

The Rev

SmokeaJoint · 11-09-2010, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mohandas K. Ghandi

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind

**SageTree** · 11-09-2010, 03:20 PM

*tip of the hat to Gandhi

11-09-2010, 11:02 AM	#2 (permalink)
farmergiles Yahookan Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sick of the hatred and the lies Posts: 7,807 Thanks: 2,285 Thanked 3,750 Times in 2,554 Posts	String the torturing fucker up. And Blair as well. __________________ Cultivate a stoic calmness *Fuck the Monkeys* Every Kind of Vice

11-09-2010, 11:47 AM	#4 (permalink)
cantSEEme Cold School Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3,019 Thanks: 152 Thanked 127 Times in 457 Posts	he (and his cabinet) created the patriot act, suspended habeas corpus, and approved torture as a means of investigation. do ppl really think he is gonna be all "i was wrong". lolno. also, LOL @ bush thinking the worst part about his time as president was when kanye said "bush hates black ppl". __________________

11-09-2010, 11:54 AM	#5 (permalink)
farmergiles Yahookan Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sick of the hatred and the lies Posts: 7,807 Thanks: 2,285 Thanked 3,750 Times in 2,554 Posts	j- so it's ok if a head of state approves the use of torture by their country's armed forces? What about the Geneva Convention? Why did we hang all those nazis after ww2? __________________ Cultivate a stoic calmness *Fuck the Monkeys* Every Kind of Vice

11-09-2010, 12:54 PM	#6 (permalink)
SageTree ~Kalyāṇa-mitrā~ Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: In Love Posts: 23,414 Blog Entries: 26 Thanks: 13,070 Thanked 6,769 Times in 4,664 Posts	I certainly didn't expect an apology but I certainly didn't expect a 'damn right'. I am not saying I could have done better, but that is sort of like comparing a man who trained his whole life for the office...... and me. Never will I condone it myself or 'understand' why one human will torture another. I'm sure it seems 'in the best interest' at the moment, but there is so many humanist reasons beyond and including the facts about the methods. Just another syndrome of the short term gain, long term loss culture. One of my biggest problems with Bush, the man, is the he was such a proud Christian and as a person of faith, this really bothered me. But I don't think you have to be religious or spiritual to see the common sense in 'The Golden Rule', however. "Thou shalt not kill", to me, doesn't pass for ok, just because it's with in an inch of trying to. A total cop out as a human, outside his political role. I fail to find justification for these acts. The 'politics' of the whole issue really isn't the for front issue for me, here. A couple might be president, be we are all human, that is what presides for me. On the opinions of Obama's "deaf ears/ not caring about public opinion/" , while giving people a human* right, verse " deaf ears/not caring about public opinion", and stripping people of human* rights is pretty damned different if you ask me. I think it's safe to say Bush stripped the people of his own country of certain freedoms, "while in office" just like good ole' Obama, who is stripping them of their right to die sick in the streets. Other than the debt accrued and tax dollars spent, there isn't much similarity. And let's face it. I doubt that the US is spending the same money on health care as it is war. That would be......talkin' crazy !!! Same action, maybe same intention, but to me very different ends to those means. Whatever Bush's reasons etc are, whether he feels bad or cares at night, I don't wish him harm, I just hope that he is able to live with the karmas that he has created for himself and countless others. The abusers often are left with a form of scaring in their own minds so it's not at all confusing to seem regretful but not apologetic. However logically its a paradox, to me. I don't know what the best course here really could have been, but I feel confident in saying what I wouldn't entail in the policies no matter how over or under trained I was to step into this role. Like I said, I wish him no ill will, but I do wish, that at least in private, that he is working this out for himself. As for the book, it is a public release, so he's speaking to all of us, imo. I don't feel it's ok to shrug it off as 'It was for his target audience" This is a former president, not any old author. "May all sentient beings have ease, peace, safety, health and find the lasting causes of happiness" In kind, SageTree __________________ "What's oppressive is letting your life be confined by old definitions of what everything is." -Zen Meister my_scatterheart YaHooka is.... Cannabis lovers from around the world pulling up a comfy chair, picking up a vaporizer, a bong, a brownie, a pipe, or a joint, getting high, stoned, buzzed or healthy. Uniting our minds in conversation...While Portraying a Positive Image of marijuana and marijuana users to the world. Treat your fellow YaHookans with kindness,respect and tolerance. Last edited by SageTree; 11-09-2010 at 01:16 PM.

11-09-2010, 01:27 PM	#8 (permalink)
SageTree ~Kalyāṇa-mitrā~ Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: In Love Posts: 23,414 Blog Entries: 26 Thanks: 13,070 Thanked 6,769 Times in 4,664 Posts	I agree Giles, but if you are going to tout it and get elected for it by people who are as well, then I feel that could have been THE biggest campaign lie he committed, as I believe there ought to be some responsibility for what you say you are.... but I guess this is politics and not philosophy after all __________________ "What's oppressive is letting your life be confined by old definitions of what everything is." -Zen Meister my_scatterheart YaHooka is.... Cannabis lovers from around the world pulling up a comfy chair, picking up a vaporizer, a bong, a brownie, a pipe, or a joint, getting high, stoned, buzzed or healthy. Uniting our minds in conversation...While Portraying a Positive Image of marijuana and marijuana users to the world. Treat your fellow YaHookans with kindness,respect and tolerance.

11-09-2010, 01:46 PM	#12 (permalink)
The Rev Clear Light Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: In my head, somewhere. Posts: 17,867 Thanks: 5,019 Thanked 5,421 Times in 2,865 Posts	If torture and war achieved their desired outcomes, the world would be a paradise by now. If people can't figure that out by now, we deserve the extermination at our own hands that awaits us. The Rev __________________ Budforce - My Friend August 29, 1973- May 25, 2012

11-09-2010, 01:48 PM	#13 (permalink)
SageTree ~Kalyāṇa-mitrā~ Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: In Love Posts: 23,414 Blog Entries: 26 Thanks: 13,070 Thanked 6,769 Times in 4,664 Posts	Rev, What IF they did achieve their goals jk.... sorta..... __________________ "What's oppressive is letting your life be confined by old definitions of what everything is." -Zen Meister my_scatterheart YaHooka is.... Cannabis lovers from around the world pulling up a comfy chair, picking up a vaporizer, a bong, a brownie, a pipe, or a joint, getting high, stoned, buzzed or healthy. Uniting our minds in conversation...While Portraying a Positive Image of marijuana and marijuana users to the world. Treat your fellow YaHookans with kindness,respect and tolerance.

11-09-2010, 02:28 PM	#15 (permalink)
mothernature ancientbongmaster Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,232 Thanks: 1,201 Thanked 809 Times in 487 Posts	Every time I see Bush he just seems dumber and dumber.

11-09-2010, 03:20 PM	#20 (permalink)
SageTree ~Kalyāṇa-mitrā~ Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: In Love Posts: 23,414 Blog Entries: 26 Thanks: 13,070 Thanked 6,769 Times in 4,664 Posts	*tip of the hat to Gandhi __________________ "What's oppressive is letting your life be confined by old definitions of what everything is." -Zen Meister my_scatterheart YaHooka is.... Cannabis lovers from around the world pulling up a comfy chair, picking up a vaporizer, a bong, a brownie, a pipe, or a joint, getting high, stoned, buzzed or healthy. Uniting our minds in conversation...While Portraying a Positive Image of marijuana and marijuana users to the world. Treat your fellow YaHookans with kindness,respect and tolerance.

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