John F. Kerry

"Hamas: Israel has two options - death or leaving "

aw merry chwistmas to u guys too...

Hamas: Israel has two options - death or leaving Palestinian lands - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

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Nasa under Obama

John F. Kerry

its funny to think that all those microphones were imported from places like japan and america... and the cameras used to take the picture were also, and the guns they use were made in russia or checkoslovakia.... kinda makes u wonder which part of this is "homegrown".... the masses of ignorant people willing to pose for whatever pictures their higher ups in syria and iran direct? yea those are about the only thing in the pic that come from gaza....



this is what it would look like with all the western tech removed.

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Nasa under Obama

stoneric

Must be time to bomb Gaza again.

zerodown

Do you understand what Hamas is? I'm not asking if you support them, I'm asking if you know what their goals are and why? What they ask for and WHY they ask for it, do you know? Research, you might find you have more in common with them than with your own leaders in the united states.

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"I've seen people so poor all they got is money."

We have to learn to unlearn
Its not contradiction, its amendment
Not everything we see is reality
Not everything we hear is the truth
Not everything we're taught helps us grow
~Cultura Profetica

"La locura se lleva en la cabeza y las drogas en los bolsillos"
~Roberto Iniesta

stoneric

He's an israeli firster. No questions asked.

OldMan&TheWeed

Kind of reminds me of the relationship between the US and China.

Where would we be without all the digital gagetry imported from China?

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Nintey-three percent of what I say is brilliant, factual information and seven percent is complete bullshit. Have fun deciding which is which.

OldMan&TheWeed

This is a good place to start:

Hamas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They are democratically elected, and they seem to resent having been forced out of their homes and into refugee camps.

They seem to rely on a lot of desperate tactics to achieve, "A Palestinian state based on 1967 borders."

I ask myself, what would I do if I was born as a Palestinian living in an occupied territory? Would I put up with this, or would I resist?

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Nintey-three percent of what I say is brilliant, factual information and seven percent is complete bullshit. Have fun deciding which is which.

Geeno

^You're asking the wrong questions. Come with me. This won't hurt a bit.

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kamikazi89

hamas believes it's defending it's territory, trying out it's new toys and daring the IDF to attack gaza, then claim a moral victory then the destroy all hope for peace(this they share will the zionist right)

there has to be a better way of convincing the isrealis to halt the settlements

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stoneric

We could halt the settlements in a minute. Cut them off and no more vetos.

farmergiles

Hamas are a bunch of self serving maniacs. Straw man is obvious straw man j.

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Cultivate a stoic calmness

zerodown

Actually, correct me if I'm wrong, but what the Hamas are fighting for is not for the halt of israeli settlements, they actually want all israelis out of Palestinian land.

Why?

Well, imagine if China one fine day bring a lot of Ukranian guests into the United States and then starts marking national borders around their premises. Would you consider that an invasion on your country? If so, are you not in obligation to take arms and deffend your country(land)? Thats basically what happened there, when Israelis invaded Palestinian lands under the cover of the United States shield based on a lie that they are "destined as the chosen people of god to live there".

Thats how I see it, you tell me.

Oh and most Israelis settling there are actually descendants of what used to be khazaria. They do not belong there, they come from 800 miles farther.

__________________
"I've seen people so poor all they got is money."

We have to learn to unlearn
Its not contradiction, its amendment
Not everything we see is reality
Not everything we hear is the truth
Not everything we're taught helps us grow
~Cultura Profetica

"La locura se lleva en la cabeza y las drogas en los bolsillos"
~Roberto Iniesta

OldMan&TheWeed

I'm with you almost 100%, up to the point where you mention the Khazar theory, which was discredited long ago by most reputable historians.

FT.com / Books / Non-Fiction - The Invention of the Jewish People

But up to this point I'm with you. Israeli land claims based on Bronze Age fairy tales.

I wish I knew how to untangle this mess; but it seems no one does. Maybe a good place to start might be abandoning the religious justifications behind the land grab.

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Nintey-three percent of what I say is brilliant, factual information and seven percent is complete bullshit. Have fun deciding which is which.

kamikazi89

According to Jimmy Carter hamas would be willing to except the 1967 borders as conditions for a semi-permanent ceasefire

Pyrrhic victory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
is a hamas specialty

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katie west is the best

zerodown

A solution, well, there are 192 countries approximately, I think israelis should give up their intentions of establishing a nation in another country's land, hell don't we have a national park we can use as a jew reservation? lol, we spend so much money arming israelis so that palestinians can't push them out, we should spend that money building houses for them somewhere else.

Here is one of my favorite bands from spain with a song about the issue, it has english subs, what do you think about it?

__________________
"I've seen people so poor all they got is money."

We have to learn to unlearn
Its not contradiction, its amendment
Not everything we see is reality
Not everything we hear is the truth
Not everything we're taught helps us grow
~Cultura Profetica

"La locura se lleva en la cabeza y las drogas en los bolsillos"
~Roberto Iniesta

kamikazi89

Palestinians need practical solutions..otherwise nothing will change

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katie west is the best

John F. Kerry

that song is seriously funny, the dude says so many contradictory things i dont even know what to say. at one point he says hes atheist, but the song contains various biblical language like david and goliath... at one point he says he hates dead people and violence but then the chorus is YEAH INTIFADA....lol

around the world theres like this 9/11 truth style movement where people imagine that the palestinians were living in modern cities that were inhabited by a majority of palestinians in 1947 (false and false) and then the jews came and drove them out against the will of the international community and despite the pleas of palestinians for peaceful coexistance...(also false and false) its pretty interesting because as ridiculous as i personally think that is, its interesting to see that there are lots of people literally around the world who buy into it.

and its frustrating in the same way 9/11 truthers are, because how do u argue against someone who expects you to argue against them because in their mind you are "brainwashed"...

neil armstrong never landed on the moon we filmed that shit in arizona....
and then people are like , oh here we go, but how can u really "prove" to anyone that he actually landed on the moon if the people who dont belive it think any evidence or facts are just fabricated...

its also like the birthers...

im starting to think theres a gene in our dna that causes some people to belive in fantasies.


.... like just the simple fact that israel never kicked palestinians off of their land, except during times of war when the surrounding arabs had instigated hostilities.... thats a fact that i agree with, but obviously these guys dont. my knee jerk reaction is to say well im right your wrong cuz i know the history and facts, but to really be able to prove it is difficult because what can i do? explain the circumstances etc? but i think most people who believe in the "suffering" narrative probably believe in it not just because of facts, but because they like to be on the side of the little guy, or are liberal, or whatever... so to argue with it is not just to debate facts that really can be true or false but to also try to get someone to change their entire worldview. and its not surprising that people dont change their worldview easily.

provocative and interesting , but unsatisfying as well. me knowing what i know doesnt seem to be enough, and this guy in his utube vid "knowing" what he "knows" doesnt convince me, so ultimately its like spinning our wheels. and whichever side really is right, the whole conversation just gets obscured in the debate and we never really get anywhere.

zerodown im kinda interested in how you would summarize the palestinian israeli conflict? basically something like in 1948 the jews from europe who were escaping from the holocaust needed somewhere to go so the UN overrulled the palestinians who lived there and forced them to accept a jewish state in their old homeland... that type of narrative is neither factually nor historically correct, and you could hear from someone less biased then me that there were jews living there before and arabs and jews coexisting there for centuries etc, and that the idea of giving the jews somewhere where they could be at the expense of the palestinians who lived there before, is simply incorrect. I dunno if u really dont know, or kinda know, or dont wanna know, or half know and dont care because you think the palestinians are the underdog, etc etc... see it depends on where u are in this for me to even know what to say back... cuz i dont need to convince you that all im saying is right if u dont even want to learn, but if u do, then i dont want u to think im being condescending because im just approaching this in the way of someone whos dealt with people spouting these kinds of ignorant statements (like the guy in the spanish ska vid) many many times....

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Nasa under Obama

John F. Kerry

another take is the people who say things like "america deserved what it got on 9/11" . etc etc... like a part of me can understand where they're comming from, they dont like americas foreign policy and think its blowback from that etc, but another part of me just recoils and is like well its pretty ironic that these people supposedly hate bloodshed and violence which is why they are so mad at the US for causing it and yet they are glad that we suffered bloodshed and violence because they thought we deserved it- like either your against violence, or your not, or your playing some game where u justify some violence if it fits in with what you want in some other way , political or whatever.

thats like the ska song where it talks all about oh goliath is killing david blah blah blah, but then cheers for the intifada and cheers for the jews to get their comeuppance.

first of all, how can u respect someone who is so inconsistent in their views that violence in some cases is so horrible and deplorable but as "revenge" for certain acts , is actually great and something to cheer.

and second, why should the people who stand to get hurt by this supposed "retribution" respect or even regard the logic those people use as worth considering? to them , its , these guys are gonna come up with some logic to hurt me, even if its totally inconsistent and turns them into exactly what they (falsely) accused me of being...

a lot of thought provoking questions, feel free to chomp on any of it

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Nasa under Obama

John F. Kerry

more on the consistency thing- so where was the verse in this guys song that talked about how israel withdrew from gaza unilaterally to try to give the palestinians back some land in 2005. and then the militants from hamas brought in thousands of rockets and weapons and starting shelling the nearest israeli towns from the new "base" that israel gave them in trying to fulfil its obligations and gradually retreat from occupied territory....

something tells me this guy isnt too interested in actually deducing what that means.... that hes just like a che guevara fan type person who thinks anarchy and that kinda bs is "hip" etc.... even tho on sober thought we might find theres actually total logical inconsistency in his song and argument and he doesnt even discuss the efforts made on the isareli side to reach a conclusion to the conflict... its hard to give those types of people a really serious consideration because his principled statements in the song like how violence is bad and dead people in the name of god is bad.... but then no talk about suicide bombers, no talk about rockets on kindergardens... so it seems more like propoganda than anything, and thats the same kinda way a lot of people approach this issue... nearly no thinking, and nearly all emotion.


i wonder what he says about the fact that when both sides were presented with a peace plan for partition in 1948, the arabs rejected it and vowed to murder every jew in israel wheras the jews accepted it and proceeded to plant trees and fields across their part of the land which turned it into a much nicer place by today that if the palestinians would have actually done the same thing in 1948 they would have something more than refugee tents and un food aid- in 1948 both sides were relatively poor and didnt have nice houses or advanced tech or anything.... the reason that israel has those things today is because it worked hard and invested time money effort and blood into improving the land... while the palestinians sat around and bitched for years and the surrounding arab countries raped what little was left of their land and kept them in refugee camps and in poverty... i wonder if this dude could or would ever consider making a song that talked about how violence was bad and coexistance good and so based on that position he wishes both sides would agree to a peaceful conclusion of the conflict. something tells me he wont.

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Nasa under Obama

kamikazi89

j you're yahookas resident biggot

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katie west is the best