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Old 01-30-2011, 08:28 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by John F. Kerry View Post
why am i not surprised that its blogs that report such things and not, say , cnn?

cmon dude those sources are really credible, now buy a mug with their name on it
If you weren't a sick extremist and a bigoted faggot, you would think reasonably and be able to think on your own, like this guy explains it nicely:

Reuters reported on January 29 that looters broke into the Cairo museum housing the world's greatest collection of Pharaonic treasures, smashing several statues and damaging two mummies, while police battled anti-government protesters on the streets.

The Reuters article goes on to imply that protesters calling for an end to the brutal Mubarak regime did this but this conclusion defies logic. Egypt’s history is of great pride to its people and the attack on the museum was more an act of wanton vandalism rather than robbery. With everything that’s been going on in Egypt it does not make sense that people would use this as an opportunity to smash up some national treasures unless you draw the conclusion that this attack was in fact carried out by Egypt’s hated police. Why would they do this?

By attacking something of global significance to discredit the protest movement internationally, which as far as the corporate media is concerned seems to have had limited success.
To threaten people within Egypt and to justify their own existence. “Look what happens when we’re not around,” is the message the police are trying to send.
To attempt to put a brake on the revolution. The police hope to shift people’s focus from protest to defending their homes.

The police have taken this policy to the homes and small businesses of Egypt. According to German based Egyptian journalist, Hebatallah Ismail, plain clothes police are behind on-going looting in major cities. Al Jazeera TV has been reporting that the police have not only been doing the looting themselves but have been organising criminal gangs to cover more areas. It is most likely that it has been the police themselves and their criminal allies who have raided their own police stations.

In response the people have organised in neighbourhood self defence committees to protect themselves from police looters. Some of these self defence committees have found police identification cards (corresponding photos) and police weapons on captured looters. Far from being dangerous vigilante groups, as some media outlets are reporting, these committees of neighbours looking out for each other are the best defence possible in a revolutionary situation.

The Egyptian police have shown the true nature and role of police under any capitalist government. Around the world they are the last line of defence protecting the super rich minority from the exploited masses. Day to day they conduct a low level war against workers targeting the poor and ethnic minorities to sow division amongst us. They seek to quell political dissent by harassing people’s right to protest making the odd arrest to try and keep people subdued. When workers rise up, the police show their contempt and hatred for their own class and the low level war becomes an all out assault.
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...America isn't perfect, but look at all those other countries out there with no social assistant programs. We are leading the way, everyday I look out my window and see homeless people digging through my trash...
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:41 PM   #42 (permalink)
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"Forever" is just not accurate. The US has been a major power since the latter half of the 19th Century. People in the Middle East have a better hold on the term "forever". I know you're not meaning it literally, but we're talking about an influence that goes back little more than 100 years. And as far as world powers go, we've been fairly benign compared to the "superpowers" of previous eras.

Maybe part of the problem with uttering the "D" word is that we're a long ways from "D". We're talking about mobs in the streets right now, not "D". Mobs don't always produce "D". Iran, both last year and when the Shah left, is a perfect example. Actually, I'm pretty impressed with the wording coming from the White House. They're calling for a peaceful "transition", which is about the best that can be hoped for at this moment.

The "everything's Americas fault" crowd may have had help. No denial there, but I'm pretty sure we'd disagree who gave them the help. But that doesn't change the fact that it's an intellectually lazy position to take. Don't get me wrong. I understand America's made an awful lot of foreign policy blunders over the years. But America is not the bogeyman a lot of people want it to be. The world is just more complicated than that.
If you knew I wasn't being literal, why go off on an explanation that sounds like you took me literally? And comparing us to previous powers is irrelevant.

The "D' word has nothing to do with the mobs mentality. It should be a standard demand of any country we give such a large amount of our tax payers dollars(not that we should give anyone any of our tax payers dollars). Of course the only reason we send aid to Egypt is for them to make nice with israel. So it would be hard to take the morale highground this late in the game.

And of course the old excuse that the world is a big bad place and we must do what we do to protect ourselves from what's hiding underneath our beds makes all our bullshit foreign policy a neccessity.
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Old 01-30-2011, 09:39 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Getting heated
I going to take my shoes off and test them for weight, assess their aerodynamics
Maybe edge my way to some high ground
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Old 01-30-2011, 10:12 PM   #44 (permalink)
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If you knew I wasn't being literal, why go off on an explanation that sounds like you took me literally? And comparing us to previous powers is irrelevant.

The "D' word has nothing to do with the mobs mentality. It should be a standard demand of any country we give such a large amount of our tax payers dollars(not that we should give anyone any of our tax payers dollars). Of course the only reason we send aid to Egypt is for them to make nice with israel. So it would be hard to take the morale highground this late in the game.

And of course the old excuse that the world is a big bad place and we must do what we do to protect ourselves from what's hiding underneath our beds makes all our bullshit foreign policy a neccessity.
Yes, putting anything into historical perspective is irrelevent, especially when it doesn't fit your worldview. But you say it's irrelevent, so it's irrelevent. Part of what I mean about being intellectually lazy.

If the "D" word has nothing to do with the mob's mentality, why is it important Obama call for it again? I agree with you as to tax dollars to anyone else in principle, but once again, we live in the real world. In case you haven't noticed, "D" is few and far between. We have client states who do things we don't agree with. It is hard to take the morale high ground, but it is what it is. Just as hard as pretending your outrage, or a mob somewhere halfway around the world, will change that. But it's all history. Irrelevent.

I know that "hiding under the bed" isn't literal, but I'll play your game. You're deluding yourself if you believe there's nothing under the bed. There are threats in this world. And sometimes decisions have to be made to keep those threats at bay. You may not like those decisions, I might not like those decisions. And they may not always be right. But they still have to be made. I don't know about you, but I'd be in big trouble if millions of people critiqued me at my job every day. Minimizing the threats that we face, pretending they don't exist, wishing them away, don't make them go away. It may sound trite to you, but it IS a big bad world out there.
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Old 01-30-2011, 10:15 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Getting heated
I going to take my shoes off and test them for weight, assess their aerodynamics
Maybe edge my way to some high ground
Bloody scorcher round here...
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...America isn't perfect, but look at all those other countries out there with no social assistant programs. We are leading the way, everyday I look out my window and see homeless people digging through my trash...
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Old 01-30-2011, 10:16 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Getting heated
I going to take my shoes off and test them for weight, assess their aerodynamics
Maybe edge my way to some high ground
It is, but that's half the fun. There isn't a one of us who isn't talking out their ass. But I figure we all know that on some level. I'm starting to get a queasy with it myself.
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Old 01-31-2011, 12:28 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by John F. Kerry View Post
why am i not surprised that its blogs that report such things and not, say , cnn?

cmon dude those sources are really credible, now buy a mug with their name on it
Why should anyone pay attention to MSM from the US on whats going on in Egypt?
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Old 01-31-2011, 01:02 AM   #48 (permalink)
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lol CNN
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Old 01-31-2011, 01:10 AM   #49 (permalink)
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id say cnn is a pretty credible news source. this is part of the problem in the world today. 5/6ths of the arab world belives that the US and zionists are in a conspiracy to subjugate and crusade against muslims , and aljazeera fuels these flames with its typical shit, and then cnn is laughed at , even by people ud think would be on our side , despite being probably one of the more unbiased networks, international ones CERTAINLY included.
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you live in america bro. you won the earth lottery.
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Old 01-31-2011, 01:21 AM   #50 (permalink)
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did you run that edit in your sig by stulic?
if you didn't, you suck.
just saying.
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Whatever...I still think we're aliens morphed with apes.
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Old 01-31-2011, 01:28 AM   #51 (permalink)
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what?
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you live in america bro. you won the earth lottery.
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Old 01-31-2011, 04:07 AM   #52 (permalink)
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id say cnn is a pretty credible news source. this is part of the problem in the world today. 5/6ths of the arab world belives that the US and zionists are in a conspiracy to subjugate and crusade against muslims , and aljazeera fuels these flames with its typical shit, and then cnn is laughed at , even by people ud think would be on our side , despite being probably one of the more unbiased networks, international ones CERTAINLY included.
They also make alot of coffee mugs, so that totally enhances their credibility by a bunch...
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Old 01-31-2011, 10:06 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Yes, putting anything into historical perspective is irrelevent, especially when it doesn't fit your worldview. But you say it's irrelevent, so it's irrelevent. Part of what I mean about being intellectually lazy.

If the "D" word has nothing to do with the mob's mentality, why is it important Obama call for it again? I agree with you as to tax dollars to anyone else in principle, but once again, we live in the real world. In case you haven't noticed, "D" is few and far between. We have client states who do things we don't agree with. It is hard to take the morale high ground, but it is what it is. Just as hard as pretending your outrage, or a mob somewhere halfway around the world, will change that. But it's all history. Irrelevent.

I know that "hiding under the bed" isn't literal, but I'll play your game. You're deluding yourself if you believe there's nothing under the bed. There are threats in this world. And sometimes decisions have to be made to keep those threats at bay. You may not like those decisions, I might not like those decisions. And they may not always be right. But they still have to be made. I don't know about you, but I'd be in big trouble if millions of people critiqued me at my job every day. Minimizing the threats that we face, pretending they don't exist, wishing them away, don't make them go away. It may sound trite to you, but it IS a big bad world out there.
I didn't say putting "anything" into historical perspective was irrelevant. I did say the meddling powers before us were irrelevant. Our foreign policy isn't based on historical perspective especially in the middle east. It's based on israels needs.

It would be important for obomba to call for the "D" word regardless of the mob mentality. It should be ongoing. You know, that 'land of the free' thing. If we have client states who do things we don't agree with, we cut them off. It's simple. Again, in that region, everything we do is based on israels needs.

Jesus man, I know there are threats in the world. My problem with our way of dealing with them is actually creating more threats. You think anybody who doesn't agree with our foreign policy must be oblivious to the problems of the "real world". Talk about being intellectually lazy.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:36 AM   #54 (permalink)
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teh Obama response has been painfully tepid (committed to "reform") as opposed to the people(which would be revolution)
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