~1~

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SageTree

That'd basically prove my example about the forest and trees example.

If people seriously read it that literally they are missing the point, imho.

Recall or read the stories about Jesus basically calling the Pharisees and Sadducees numb nuts for following the law literally and missing the point in practicing it in the first place....

I read the Jewish, Christian and Muslim Testaments nearly every day and I find inspiration in it.

I was raised a Christian, and recognize that it's my first spiritual tongue, although I have found Truth in 'other' traditions writings.

Although I'm likely a 'Heretic' in someone's book... I refuse to give up the word, Christian, to those who want to chisel away it's vastness and mystery into a few passages, believers and non-believers alike.

When I look into the face of Buddha or Jesus, I know that I'm looking into a mirror and reminds me of the Kingdom/Consciousness that inside of me and available to me each moment, in practice.

I can't pretend like I don't understand the jokes about literalism... and really get Gandhi's quote:

"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

When people think of Christianity I wish they'd summon the idea of a Quaker instead....

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SmokeaJoint

Why do people need a religion to treat each other right though? Why cant we just respect each other as human beings? Society is so retarded in some ways.

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SageTree

I can't answer that question on behalf of the world or a whole tradition.

First of all, are we talking religion or spiritual practice?

I believe we are spiritual beings first. Religion is man made.

Like many things in life, you can be empowered by it or let it take control over you.

Since I don't consider myself religions first, I'll answer this who I see fit

I'd say, for myself, that spirituality is a synonym for connectedness, and that I find inspiration in some religions ways of phrasing 'the availability for skillful action present in each of us.'

For myself, it doesn't make me a moral person, it helps me practice and strive to perfect what I already know about caring for, not hurting and loving people.

Intention has a large percentage, if not mostly, to do with any action.

For instance, you can give someone a book for 1000 reasons depending on WHY you give it.

The book itself never changes.

These aren't JUST a religions problem.
There are plenty of non-religious folks out there with the same difficulties.


Does that make any sense to you?
I'm not preaching to you... just trying to help you understand what I am stating.

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SmokeaJoint

Well, I do recognize religion as a man made entity, but I also feel like their figureheads are for the most part equally man made. And it seems so stupid that people are made to suffer because of someone's dogma and mythos. I am on the fence about spirituality right now, so I really can't go there. I just think that we should be able to treat each other right because its the right thing to do, not because of a fear of divine judgement or some kind of future retribution. Also, I'm not pinning all of society's problems on religion and dogma. It is definitely a contributor though.

You know I don't think you preach. I usually really enjoy and appreciate what you have to say, and thats real talk.

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~1~

faith does not equal religion and vice versa.


just so you know where I stand...

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SageTree

Fair enough man

I agree that hierarchy is funny biz. It's good to have Elders for the right reason, but that doesn't mean they instantly have authority because they are older or have practiced longer.

It blows the 'born again' (imo, in each moment) or ,as the Buddhist would say it 'beginner's mind', thus limits growth and breath in a tradition.

There isn't inherent wrongness in dedicating to a practice or ritual, but when it becomes lifeless/thoughtless then it's not beneficial.

It's like driving without thinking.

The car is a mode of getting somewhere in other words. But, ideally, it goes where you intend. Similar to how Buddha addresses his teaching as the 'raft' not the 'shore'. Or the adage that says, "Don't confuse the figure pointing and the Moon itself."

What you see along the way while getting there is another metaphor I won't launch into.

Some people really seem to learn from externalizing issues... and Duality, imo, is where religion and/or spirituality becomes wacky. But I'll spare that diatribe... for now as well....

I don't see spirituality in exclusiveness to religion, although there is a less laden synonym I'm sure. Which is why I like 'Practicing Connectedness' or something more like that.... I hope to make the concept, rather than the word more inclusive.

On that note, I think of it as a way of filling up ourselves to be the best we can be to feel alive. Practicing gratitude for experiencing sunrises or a learning experiences is a Path if we set our intention in that direction. Does that make a little sense?

I dare say, I don't think the gratitude needs to 'go' anywhere... you hear it... that is good enough. (this harkens back to the duality thing which I promised not to go into)...


What you said about Practicing because of Fear rings true with me.

While it serves its carnal uses I don't think it's to be embraced in persuasion. Church/Drug War etc...

It's like asking someone why they don't steel.

Is it fear of retribution or Does one realize that it's simply not beneficial as a means to others and yourself?

Thanks for clarifying your point about where your 'finger is pointing' and I didn't figure you were saying mistakes were exclusive to a Way of Living, secular or religious.

I'm glad you hear me out, and I hope you sense that offering from me as well.

I like to talk about these things, held in the light, that we learn about each other.
I don't intended to change anyone's mind.
Rather I just figure we are just watering each other's seeds of 'how we live/think'....

I know we all come from different places and experiences with topics. And we certainly can't say 'wrong or right' about an opinion. So I thank your for your and for reading mine.

In other words, My intention in sharing isn't to tell you other wise, rather, I realize sometimes people get upset with religious/spiritual folk and I just want to help remove the generalizations that often can make us very angry instead of seeing it as a person to person situation.

There are Church-folk who I really admire as people and how they commit their life. I don't understand the tradition always, but I just try to savour where out circles over lap, like taking care of people. And there are very inclusive branches of Christianity out there. Unfortunately they are the squeaking wheels. :/

In kind
SageTree

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SageTree

Well I'll 'Amen'

Like I said to SAJ. I am happy we can talk and share with each other.

And when we see people instead of Groups/Organizations etc... , I think it's easier to assuage our generalizations and have a little more hope about life.

I'm guilty of not always practicing this of course and having generalizations...

Which is why I ALWAYS make the best effort to read everything that folks have written.

Even JFK .


People have passions, no pun, and I am interested.

I hope, in talks like this, that I am coming off as I intend.

Inclusive, Welcoming and Listening.


Trying to live in Love,
SageTree

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