Why is the US Torturing Pvt Manning?

SmokeaJoint · 03-16-2011, 12:19 AM

Ron Smith: Why is the United State torturing Private Manning? - baltimoresun.com

Quote:

Ten months after his arrest on charges of leaking classified documents to WikiLeaks, Army Pfc. Bradley Manning is systematically being stripped of his humanness by his warders at the brig inside the Marine base at Quantico, Va.

Not yet tried for — much less convicted of — crimes against the state, Private Manning is forced to endure punishment that certainly fits the definition of torture. He is being held in solitary confinement in a tiny cell 23 hours a day, allowed no exercise other than walking around dragging his ankle shackles during the 24th hour.

Every five minutes during waking hours, he must answer the question, "Are you OK?" If his hands aren't outside his blanket while sleeping, or if his head is turned toward the wall, the young soldier is awakened.

The result is that Private Manning is under more or less constant interrogation, a tactic routinely employed by the notorious NKVD, the secret police of Lenin and Stalin, on Soviet dissidents in the basement of Moscow's Lubyanka prison.

To top it off, this week it was revealed that Private Manning is now forced into prolonged nudity, having not only to sleep naked but to stand for inspection outside his cell in the morning without clothing, and therefore without any shred of dignity.

Brig officials confirmed this new twist to The New York Times, saying the forced nudity is being done "as a precautionary measure to prevent him from injuring himself."

We can be pretty sure that's not the actual motive, since Bradley Manning is not under suicide watch, the imposition of which would require the endorsement of mental health professionals.

The real goal is to break the man's spirit. It is to dehumanize him. It is to ruin his health, not to protect it.

His supporters say he leaked details of American war crimes, other violations of law and government deception in order to make Americans aware of the truth. They view him as a national hero, a man worthy of plaudits rather than the treatment he's now enduring and the probable long prison sentence he'll get if convicted.

In discussing this on my show, callers and e-mailers were passionate. One set believes the man to be a traitor and is unsympathetic to concerns about his treatment in custody.

The other side, with which I agree, would like our government to live up to its constant prattling about human rights when it applies to other nations, and to order what's happening at Quantico to stop.

While campaigning for president, Barack Obama said, "Government whistle-blowers are part of a healthy democracy and must be protected from reprisal."

We should consider this just another reminder that nothing a politician promises while running for office is likely to be fulfilled.

I believe what's happening to this American citizen is unconstitutional. The Eighth Amendment forbids "cruel and unusual punishment." And there is nothing constitutional about punishing someone for a crime he is not yet proved to have committed. Yet the former constitutional lawyer now living in the White House shows not the slightest sign of intervening in this matter.

There is something else in play that should be spelled out, and which I believe gets to the heart of the matter: What's being done to this 23-year-old soldier has what's called a demonstration effect. Other would-be whistle-blowers will be able to see what happens to someone who defies the government.

In fact, as salon.com blogger Glenn Greenwald points out, the bringing of 22 more charges against Private Manning the other day, including one of "aiding the enemy," carries with it the possibility of a death sentence.

"The prosecution theory," writes Mr. Greenwald, "would convert acts of whistle blowing into a hanging offense."

Our leaders bloviate about human rights and the need for "citizens to hold their own governments accountable." Secretary of State Hillary Clinton lectures endlessly on the importance of freedom of speech in the Internet age.

At Quantico, meantime, the field-stripping of a young man's mind continues apace. I'm ashamed, and you should be, too.

Shit's pretty fucked up. I'm thinking of e-mailing a congressman in protest or something similar, but I'm not sure who's best to get in contact with about it. Any ideas, YaHooka?

Sugar420 · 03-16-2011, 12:36 AM

you can start here
https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml

The Rev · 03-16-2011, 12:38 AM

Quote:

There is something else in play that should be spelled out, and which I believe gets to the heart of the matter: What's being done to this 23-year-old soldier has what's called a demonstration effect. Other would-be whistle-blowers will be able to see what happens to someone who defies the government.

That's it, right there. This business with wikileaks, anon, and all that is just the beginning of a war over control of information. The source of the information right now is whistleblowers, so it's natural that the government, in their efforts to maintain control of information about their activities, would focus their energy on dissuading whistleblowers.

I think writing your congressman couldn't hurt, but I doubt it will help. This is just one of those situations where you have to sit back and let things unfold as they will. Either way this goes, whistleblowers will not be dissuaded. They will either get confidence from his release, or pissed off at his execution.

My expectation is the government's next move will be to create it's own disinformation "whistleblowers" in an attempt to undermine the credibility of wikileaks, etc. It will get interesting, then, as people leak stories about false leaks.

The Rev

John F. Kerry · 03-16-2011, 12:26 PM

what do u expect them to do ? tuck him in with ice cream and a good night kiss?

a suicide proof smock isnt exactly torture.

if they were ripping out his toenails i would be right there with u guys, but what do u expect them to do to this traitorous criminal?

traitorous criminal or free info hero? i guess its up to u to decide, but what do u expect the government to do ? seriously, imagine it was your ship to steer, how would u deal with a huge info dump of classified secrets by a government employee who had sworn to maintain secrecy with his security clearance but then just dumped it all off to some foreign entity? dont rag on me, just ask yourself what you would do.

SmokeaJoint · 03-16-2011, 12:30 PM

John, all I can say to that, is this:

Quote:

While campaigning for president, Barack Obama said, "Government whistle-blowers are part of a healthy democracy and must be protected from reprisal."

So definitely NOT a traitor. Barry O said it himself. Not that is means he wasn't lying through his teeth, but we expect that from politicians.

If you had read it, you would see he wasn't in a suicide-proof smock. Its called bare naked bro.

Quote:

To top it off, this week it was revealed that Private Manning is now forced into prolonged nudity, having not only to sleep naked but to stand for inspection outside his cell in the morning without clothing, and therefore without any shred of dignity.

Do you honestly think psychological torture is any less painful and effective than physical torture?

**SageTree** · 03-16-2011, 12:41 PM

I was born in a suicide proof smock.... this proves it's not torture.... he's obviously been abducted by nudist....

John F. Kerry · 03-16-2011, 12:46 PM

i feel for him , but since he freely choose to do what he did, he sorta also choose to accept the consequences... no one held a gun to his head and forced him to violate his oath and release classified info that could have very easily put his brother soldiers in harms way.

what would u say if some us troops had died because of his leaks ? or some afghan people? do u think he checked the millions of files to make sure no info that could harm his fellow soldiers was released?

Marines issue WikiLeaks suspect suicide-proof smock to keep him covered at night :: The Republic the smock thing i read. dunno if its current now or if yours is more recent.

this is a tough call... i like information, and openness.. but i also like people upholding their oaths and not using their priveleged access to information to abuse their position of trust and give away all that secret info.

SmokeaJoint · 03-16-2011, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John F. Kerry

i feel for him , but since he freely choose to do what he did, he sorta also choose to accept the consequences... no one held a gun to his head and forced him to violate his oath and release classified info that could have very easily put his brother soldiers in harms way.

what would u say if some us troops had died because of his leaks ? or some afghan people? do u think he checked the millions of files to make sure no info that could harm his fellow soldiers was released?

Marines issue WikiLeaks suspect suicide-proof smock to keep him covered at night :: The Republic the smock thing i read. dunno if its current now or if yours is more recent.

this is a tough call... i like information, and openness.. but i also like people upholding their oaths and not using their priveleged access to information to abuse their position of trust and give away all that secret info.

Your'e just doing this to argue Devil's Advocate I take it? Because if not...

And your article is posted on the same date as the one I posted. An hour or so between them. Yours is the most current one by that hour. So idk if he's naked, inna smock, or what?

The Rev · 03-16-2011, 02:07 PM

Anyone in this country who is put into prison is subjected to torture. Just because it's not the government that subjects you to the constant threat of violence (and possibly rape) doesn't mean they aren't responsible for putting you in that position. I know it's a bit off topic, but it's a thing that pisses me off, so suck it.

The Rev

Roach · 03-16-2011, 02:42 PM

I'd be curious to know what penalties his superior officers are facing.

Military Intelligence isn't usually dished out to pfc's.

Or, perhaps he was placed in a position of responsability so he could/would fail. (think about it)

stoneric · 03-16-2011, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John F. Kerry

what do u expect them to do ? tuck him in with ice cream and a good night kiss?

a suicide proof smock isnt exactly torture.

if they were ripping out his toenails i would be right there with u guys, but what do u expect them to do to this traitorous criminal?

traitorous criminal or free info hero? i guess its up to u to decide, but what do u expect the government to do ? seriously, imagine it was your ship to steer, how would u deal with a huge info dump of classified secrets by a government employee who had sworn to maintain secrecy with his security clearance but then just dumped it all off to some foreign entity? dont rag on me, just ask yourself what you would do.

Solitary confinement, sleep deprivation, forced nudity and you previously defended waterboarding. Do you find anything that de-humanizes people to be the least bit objectionable or do just like being a dick?

Terry · 03-16-2011, 08:32 PM

If the US gov't and foreign policy was great and altruistic J why do we need to torture people when they expose our secrets?

zerodown · 03-18-2011, 06:27 AM

You know J, if this Manning had released info on US future plans, technological equipment blueprints, targets to attack the US, or something that could be used to destroy the US, then fuck him.

But hes just a whistleblower, he released for example the video of an american helicopter full of american soldiers shooting a lot of civilians(including kids) in what appeared to be a fun day at the shooting gallery. As well as the garani airstrike video.

And you call him a traitor? for showing the world the kind of crap we actually do in iraq? Fuck that, the traitors are the ones keeping him in detention. the traitors were the soldiers on that helicopter, the traitors are our politicians lying day in and day out, the traitor is the military industrial complex using any shitty situation(or creating one if there isn't) to lead us into more war.

The traitor is people like you who support this kind of bullshit and eats anything our corrupt leaders and media feed us. Damn man, wake the fuck up, think for a moment before you repeat what you hear/read on [insert major media outlet].

The only thing I agree with you is that, yes the government does what the government does, they will not give candy and ice cream to Manning, they will make an example out of him by making his life a living hell and letting everyone else know about it.

John F. Kerry · 03-18-2011, 11:44 AM

if they didnt make an example out of him then tommorow someone WOULD release info on us future plans, tech equipment blueprints, all the stuff your talking about, without fear of reprisal.

yea in a perfect world we could all smoke weed and sit on the grass and not worry about power and violence.... but , this isnt that world.... if the government just let it slide then whats to stop the other 2 million people with security clearances from wholesale just giving up all our secrets?

...i see what you guys are saying.... i guess there should be a better wistleblowing mechanism in place- if he really wanted to whistleblow to expose illegal or immoral actions, he should have sent the info to president bush or president obama...not to julian assange.

SmokeaJoint · 03-18-2011, 12:02 PM

President Obama and Ex-Prez Bush.... so to expose corruption you send the info to the seat of that corruption? I'm sorry John, but logic fails in the face of that proposition.

John F. Kerry · 03-18-2011, 12:06 PM

whistleblowing is actually a very interesting concept with a lot of literature about the morality of it- and whether you should go to higher ups within the organization or government, and when it is appropriate to go outside of the organization and "to the public" with your whistleblowing...

without concluding anything, it is a very interesting and provocative topic.

SmokeaJoint · 03-18-2011, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John F. Kerry

without concluding anything, it is a very interesting and provocative topic.

Very true. The debate rages on other forums too. Mostly because, although Pfc. Manning DID release documents containing corruption and other nastiness, he also released THOUSANDS of cables that had nothing corrupt or illegal in them, but DID contain sensitive military info.

Me, I don't know what to think anymore. I like the idea of whistleblowing in general, but surely Manning could have been more selective in what he leaked?

stoneric · 03-18-2011, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John F. Kerry

if they didnt make an example out of him then tommorow someone WOULD release info on us future plans, tech equipment blueprints, all the stuff your talking about, without fear of reprisal.

yea in a perfect world we could all smoke weed and sit on the grass and not worry about power and violence.... but , this isnt that world.... if the government just let it slide then whats to stop the other 2 million people with security clearances from wholesale just giving up all our secrets?

...i see what you guys are saying.... i guess there should be a better wistleblowing mechanism in place- if he really wanted to whistleblow to expose illegal or immoral actions, he should have sent the info to president bush or president obama...not to julian assange.

It doesn't matter what anyone believes, whether he's a hero or a traitor, he shouldn't be treated like a sub-human. NO ONE should, we're suppose to be above that. Future heros or traitors should have to be detered by the knowledge that they will lose their freedom, not their dignities, if they get caught. By the way, he's one big fucking hero in my book.

And that's hilarious about whistleblowers sending info to the Prez. You weren't serious about that, were you?

zerodown · 03-18-2011, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John F. Kerry

if they didnt make an example out of him then tommorow someone WOULD release info on us future plans, tech equipment blueprints, all the stuff your talking about, without fear of reprisal.

Your ability to make illogical arguments is unmatched, as always.

If tomorrow someone does that shit, then let them make an example out of HIM, but what they are doing to Manning is simply wrong.

Its that simple.

FourtySecondRip · 03-19-2011, 02:42 AM

i have no problem with whistleblowers like with corporations and shit. which usually means the info crossed your path somehow while working there and you couldnt go on letting it happen. but since all his info was top secret government files. he just stole every document he had access too and dumped it onto the net. he didnt present us a case on the ones that were worth whistleblowing for or the backstories with them. he just has tons of short bits of information that was classified for a reason and no matter what people say its going to be out of context to 99.99% of the population that reads it later on.

had he been whistleblowing a specific situation or ongoing situations i might be able to support him. but the way he handled it was bush league (no pun intended) and he deserves everything he gets for it. hopefully the death penalty eventually after a few decades in solitary.

03-16-2011, 12:41 PM	#6 (permalink)
SageTree ~Kalyāṇa-mitrā~ Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: In Love Posts: 23,414 Blog Entries: 26 Thanks: 13,070 Thanked 6,769 Times in 4,664 Posts	I was born in a suicide proof smock.... this proves it's not torture.... he's obviously been abducted by nudist.... __________________ "What's oppressive is letting your life be confined by old definitions of what everything is." -Zen Meister my_scatterheart YaHooka is.... Cannabis lovers from around the world pulling up a comfy chair, picking up a vaporizer, a bong, a brownie, a pipe, or a joint, getting high, stoned, buzzed or healthy. Uniting our minds in conversation...While Portraying a Positive Image of marijuana and marijuana users to the world. Treat your fellow YaHookans with kindness,respect and tolerance.

03-16-2011, 02:07 PM	#9 (permalink)
The Rev Clear Light Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: In my head, somewhere. Posts: 17,867 Thanks: 5,019 Thanked 5,421 Times in 2,865 Posts	Anyone in this country who is put into prison is subjected to torture. Just because it's not the government that subjects you to the constant threat of violence (and possibly rape) doesn't mean they aren't responsible for putting you in that position. I know it's a bit off topic, but it's a thing that pisses me off, so suck it. The Rev __________________ Budforce - My Friend August 29, 1973- May 25, 2012

03-16-2011, 02:42 PM	#10 (permalink)
Roach Victoria Aut Mors Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7,184 Thanks: 2,372 Thanked 1,987 Times in 1,509 Posts	I'd be curious to know what penalties his superior officers are facing. Military Intelligence isn't usually dished out to pfc's. Or, perhaps he was placed in a position of responsability so he could/would fail. (think about it) __________________ לזיין את הקופים

03-16-2011, 08:32 PM	#12 (permalink)
Terry Hello Darkness Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Moscow, Idaho Posts: 8,539 Thanks: 2,130 Thanked 2,392 Times in 1,189 Posts	If the US gov't and foreign policy was great and altruistic J why do we need to torture people when they expose our secrets? __________________ I don't know but I've been told, If you never die you'll never grow old

03-18-2011, 06:27 AM	#13 (permalink)
zerodown Mafutero Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: PR Posts: 782 Thanks: 41 Thanked 169 Times in 131 Posts	You know J, if this Manning had released info on US future plans, technological equipment blueprints, targets to attack the US, or something that could be used to destroy the US, then fuck him. But hes just a whistleblower, he released for example the video of an american helicopter full of american soldiers shooting a lot of civilians(including kids) in what appeared to be a fun day at the shooting gallery. As well as the garani airstrike video. And you call him a traitor? for showing the world the kind of crap we actually do in iraq? Fuck that, the traitors are the ones keeping him in detention. the traitors were the soldiers on that helicopter, the traitors are our politicians lying day in and day out, the traitor is the military industrial complex using any shitty situation(or creating one if there isn't) to lead us into more war. The traitor is people like you who support this kind of bullshit and eats anything our corrupt leaders and media feed us. Damn man, wake the fuck up, think for a moment before you repeat what you hear/read on [insert major media outlet]. The only thing I agree with you is that, yes the government does what the government does, they will not give candy and ice cream to Manning, they will make an example out of him by making his life a living hell and letting everyone else know about it. __________________ "I've seen people so poor all they got is money." We have to learn to unlearn Its not contradiction, its amendment Not everything we see is reality Not everything we hear is the truth Not everything we're taught helps us grow ~Cultura Profetica "La locura se lleva en la cabeza y las drogas en los bolsillos" ~Roberto Iniesta

03-16-2011, 12:36 AM	#2 (permalink)
Sugar420 Freedom Bird Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 6,138 Thanks: 41 Thanked 183 Times in 733 Posts	you can start here https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml

03-19-2011, 02:42 AM	#20 (permalink)
FourtySecondRip ECS Join Date: May 2002 Location: Emerald City Posts: 820 Thanks: 25 Thanked 107 Times in 87 Posts	i have no problem with whistleblowers like with corporations and shit. which usually means the info crossed your path somehow while working there and you couldnt go on letting it happen. but since all his info was top secret government files. he just stole every document he had access too and dumped it onto the net. he didnt present us a case on the ones that were worth whistleblowing for or the backstories with them. he just has tons of short bits of information that was classified for a reason and no matter what people say its going to be out of context to 99.99% of the population that reads it later on. had he been whistleblowing a specific situation or ongoing situations i might be able to support him. but the way he handled it was bush league (no pun intended) and he deserves everything he gets for it. hopefully the death penalty eventually after a few decades in solitary. __________________ ..,,,O,,,.. <\FSR/> .,._/\_.,

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