Galt

I'm sure that this has been covered ad nauseum in prior threads, but I didn't see anything too current and I feel it bears constant reinforcement. I'm not shillin' for the guy but I did have a chance to watch his video and I gotta say that it proved helpful even to an old know-it-all like myself.

How to Flex Your Rights During Police Encounters
Its called "Ten Rules for Dealing With Police"

The guy who did it is a big time PITA lawyer who used to be a judge, so he's got a pretty good idea of what he's talkin' about. Just to quickly summarize:

Rule #1
- Shut The Fuck Up!

Rule #2
- Keep the attitude in check (I always fail on this count). Just be polite
and stay focused on the prize...which is staying free and not incurring
any unnecessary contusions.

Rule #3
- Shut The Fuck Up! (did I say that already?)

Rule #4
- Practice this til it's rote: "Officer, I know you're just doing your job but I
do not consent to any search".

Rule #5
- Repeat Rule #4 and then Shut The Fuck Up!

Rule #6
- Practice this one too: "Officer, am I being detained?" if the answer is
No, then it's time to go. If the answer is Yes, then go back and
repeat all of the above.

Rule #7
- No tickee no laundry. In other words, no warrant no enter. "Officer I'm
real sorry that you're gonna shit yourself but my mom won't let me
have any strangers in the house" (even if you're sixty). If ya got a
peep hole ya don't even have to answer the door. Talk through the
door, not at all, or if ya have to deal face to face - step outside and
lock the door behind you. See Rules 1-6.

Rule #8
- If you are the subject of a search, legal or otherwise, gather names of
witnesses as quickly as possible and everybody, especially you, write
everything down that happened as soon after as possible. You will
forget, and you'd be surprised what with the new cell phones and
cameras, just how many folks are recording everything they see.

Rule #9
- You don't need to challenge LEO with statements about knowing your
rights. That will become painfully obvious to him as soon as you begin
to assert them. If he thinks to ask if you're a lawyer or something just
come back with "Am I being detained or am I free to go?" If he has
probable cause they can legally detain you without telling you why,
and asserting your rights or refusing to consent to a search is not an
admission of guilt or adequate for probable cause. Neither is a broken
tail light or a simple traffic violation.

Rule #10
- Never run from the police. They have been known to fire warning
shots that end up in the back of people's heads and spines. Aside
from that, unless he's just finished his second box of donuts of the
morning and you're Jessie Owens twin, you ain't gettin' far. It's a bitch
tryin' to outrun radio waves and helicopters. You just end up pissin'
them off and bein' a whole lot more tired and scuffed up while you're
sittin' in the tank.

Well I got these all fucked up and don't even remember them ALL, but
this covers the gist of it. Grab the video and show it regularly to your
family and friends. Copy NORML's "Get Out'a Jail Free Card" and
memorize it, carry it with ya for a reminder...hell think about gettin' it
inked on your fuckin' arm it's that important. All things considered,
you're probably better off never speaking to LEO for any reason
unless you're the victim of a violent crime, and even then it'll probably
end up bein' a waste of time.

General reminders

- Cops can and do lie and there ain't shit you can do about it. Their lies
and misdeeds will be of no real value to your defense, unless you
have a witness. It helps if the witness isn't a co-defendant. Kind'a two
wrongs don't make a right.

- No one has ever talked their way out'a trouble, only deeper in.

- Be of good cheer. If they are asking questions be happy. It's further
proof that they don't have shit...as long as you don't consent to any
searches and keep your brilliant banter to yourself they probably still
won't know shit when they end up kickin' ya loose.

- If you can't swallow it in a quick gulp with a bad case of dry mouth,
probably better off leavin' it home.

- If you have a van or a car with a back seat, make it a habit to clean it
regularly and make certain that a good bud didn't leave ya any
remnants of their Good Bud somewhere that you didn't think of.

- Common sense is always good. If you support NORML (as every
intelligent person should) and you like to show it by sporting one of
their bumper stickers on your vehicle, probably a good idea to take
your friend's car to pick up the pizza if ya gotta toke on the way.

- Dress however you like, but I haven't been stopped for years since I
started wearin' short hair, oxford shirts and puttin' pro law
enforcement bumper stickers over the Dead Head shit on my car.
Maybe make a small donation to the F.O.P. They often give out bumper
stickers for showing your support. Smoke boilin' out'a a replica of
Shaggy's van with a coupl'a dred wearin' red eyes are likely to
generate a little more enthusiasm from LEO no matter where ya live.

- LEO doesn't have to "Mirandize" you. That shit's for T.V. They don't
have to tell you shit until you are actually charged. If you are detained
then other than saying that you would like to speak to an
attorney...Shut The Fuck Up! Even after you've asked for a lawyer and
whether you've been Mirandized or not, they are perfectly free to keep
asking you questions.

- Every and any phone and email is crackable, traceable and tappable,
so use them as though you were speaking directly to the man. This is
even more true than ever now thanks to Bush and Bama's war on
personal liberty. The Patriot Act has only been expanded since Yobo
took office, and he's no friend to MJ, so conduct yourselves accordingly.
The fuckers can now do just about anything that they want with this
Homeland Security bullshit so remember, Loose Lips Sink Ships!

Sad to say it but shit's only gettin' worse on this front and there are plenty of perfectly innocent people in jail, so be smart. Learn your rights and exercise them. Grab a copy of the Constitution and read it, then go vote for something other than a Republicat or Democan...like maybe a Libertarian (gee I wonder where they got that name?).

__________________
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
- Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
_________________

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
- Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)

Pharm Girl

i had to enforce rule nuber 4 ONCE.......... and ever since then my girls travel in flashy suitcases..(where's that pic?)...and i kept asking about rule number 6...he said i hadta stay put

he wanted to check my trunk....IMAGINE??..and he woulda scored ..I told 'im---TO GET A SEARCH WARRANT...he called this one and that one...more showed up...it was starting to look like a side show---then.....about an hour passed and quite a few leo personalities later---they just couldn't get permission/nor a warrant--and had to leave-and i went to the bush and planted the stressed out girls--they were starting to get all sweaty in the trunk---

__________________

.....The Time has Come to 'Walk the Talk'.....~

......A message for ALL from the Deer Tribe...~

It is a great journey —
but you must do the walking
and have the willingness to change
and make the leap into
the next level of human evolution.

Become an inquisitive free thinking
individual that takes
responsibility for your life
and the spiritual accountability to live life to the fullest.

Fuck the Monkeys

Galt

Pretty shitty shame that we have to endure this kind of Stazi-like crap in the first place, but that's what the morons of this country keep voting for.

You raised an interesting point regarding the cop playing games with semantics. Asking if you are being detained puts him into uh-oh mode where he decides to get a second opinion (plus no doubt jack up your anxiety level and hope to see you wilt by calling all cars). Since he wouldn't specifically tell you that you were being detained, if you stay and he eventually managed to find a dog they might try to do an illegal sniff and later claim that since you stayed you were defacto volunteering to allow the encounter to continue. If they could come up with some sort of bullshit probable cause and you had in fact left, then maybe they would have tried to take you down and charge you with some other bullshit, disorderly- failure to obey a police douche, etc.

I went through the FAQ's at the website for the video I mentioned and couldn't find a similar problem so I forwarded your experience to them asking them for a could'a, should'a, would'a elucidation. Hopefully they'll get a chance to respond. Meanwhile their FAQ page is loaded with good shit.

Frequently Asked Questions | How to Flex Your Rights During Police Encounters

Happy as hell that you managed to walk away from something that all too frequently ends up being an avoidable train wreck.

BTW, the pics of the girls and your luggage are something I'd probably not post. I'm about an eleven on the paranoid dial. Ya never know how many dedicated gung ho LEO's spend their lonely nights lurkin' on weed-centric sites lookin' to stay current. Not tryin' to fuck with ya I'm jus' sayin'...

Here's a snippet from those FAQ's that relates but doesn't really IMO deal with the specifics that you were confronted with, so I say again...way to go for standin' tall and Resisting Harass.


How long can I be detained without being formally arrested?

That depends. The answer is as long as it reasonably takes police to conduct the investigation. If you choose to challenge a detention, your lawyer will have to argue that police kept you longer than necessary under the circumstances. If the judge agrees, any criminal charges that resulted from your detention will likely be dropped.

Remember that detentions are voluntary unless you verbally ask to leave. Any time police detain you, it's a good idea to ask if you're free to go. If the officer says you may leave, it's up to you to leave the scene of the encounter. If you choose to stay, the detention is automatically legal.


Don't know the particulars of why you were stopped in the first place but here's something from along those lines:

Are drug checkpoints legal?

No. Drug checkpoints are a trap! The Supreme Court has ruled that random checkpoints for the purpose of finding illegal drugs are unconstitutional. However, police sometimes put up signs warning drivers of up-coming drug checkpoints and instead pull over people who make illegal u-turns or discard contraband out the window. If you see a sign saying “Drug Checkpoint Ahead”, just keep driving and don’t panic. If there’s a rest area following the sign, DO NOT pull into it. If you do, you’ll find yourself surrounded by drug-sniffing dogs.

Police departments, especially in the Mid-west, have been pushing their luck with this tactic, so if you encounter anything resembling an actual drug checkpoint, please contact that state’s ACLU Chapter. Similarly, if you’re arrested as a result of a real or fake “drug checkpoint”, you must contact an attorney to explore your legal options.

and another...


What are my rights at sobriety checkpoints?

Sobriety checkpoints -- also known as DUI checkpoints -- are the most common roadblocks you might encounter. They function as a general purpose investigatory tactic where police can get a close look at passing motorists by detaining them briefly. A roadblock stop is quick, but it gives police a chance to check tags and licenses, while also giving officers a quick whiff of the driver’s breath and a chance to peer into the vehicle for a moment.

Remember that your constitutional rights still apply in a roadblock situation. Though police are permitted to stop you briefly, they may not search you or your car unless they have probable cause or you agree to the search. Keep in mind that if you’re driving under the influence, your constitutional rights provide very little protection in this situation.

Since the Supreme Court’s ruling in Illinois v. Caballes police have more leeway to use drug-sniffing dogs in roadblock situations. There’s no need to waive your rights simply because dogs are present. But be advised that your legal options are limited if you're arrested as a result of a dog sniff during a roadblock.

Also keep in mind that police closely monitor cars approaching the roadblock. So you’re not likely to have any success trying to evade it.

Sobriety checkpoints are generally permitted by the courts, but only if conducted properly. If you’re arrested at a police roadblock always consult an attorney before confessing or agreeing to a plea bargain. There might be some legal options that your lawyer can pursue.



Here's a common issue that I originally missed:

When are police allowed to frisk me?

If they have reasonable suspicion to detain you, police may conduct a pat down (frisk) of the outside of your clothing to check for weapons, but only if they have a basis for suspecting you're armed.

If they feel a hard item that might be a weapon, police may reach into your pockets. Sometimes officers reach into suspects' pockets looking for drugs even if they don't feel a weapon. This is common, but it's illegal.

Police may ask you to reveal the contents of your pockets. Just like other search requests, you have the right to refuse.

(See also "How to Deal with Police on the Street")

Clip from the DVD, 10 Rules for Dealing with Police


O.K....this is the last one, I swear. It's just that there's a bunch of really good shit on that page and I urge everyone to read it.

What if police threaten to call the dogs?

Your rights do not disappear if the officer threatens to call in the dogs, so don’t let this all-too-common tactic intimidate you into consenting to search requests.

Usually, the officer won't have a police dog on hand and he needs reasonable suspicion to detain you while waiting for the K-9 unit. Before the dogs arrive, you have the right to determine if you can leave by asking "Officer, am I free to go?" If the officer refuses and detains you until the dogs come, you have the right to remain silent and refuse to consent to any searches.

If a K-9 unit arrives, you have the right the right to refuse to consent to a dog sniff, even if the officer claims you have to. Be aware that unlocking your car at the officer's request or handing the officer your keys is the same as consenting to a search. You always have the right to refuse by stating "Officer, I don't consent to any searches." Repeat, if necessary.

If a judge determines that officer had no justification to detain you until the dog arrived, any evidence discovered by the dog can be thrown out in court.

For Flex's take on the most recent Supreme Court ruling on dog sniffs, click here.

Clip from the DVD, 10 Rules for Dealing with Police


They're always dealin' from a marked deck but there are things that we can do to help ourselves. One thing that I'm real keen on now are surreptitious video recording devices. They use 'em so I feel we should too (besides...they absofuckinlutely HATE being movie stars). You can get everything from sunglasses to key fobs that have built in micro SD cards and good quality video recorders for cheap...and they work good as shit. I use one on my dash at the mall just to keep an eye on shit. Helped me catch up with a dick that backed into my car with his trailer hitch and just split. Check'em out and help turn the tables. Time to make the pricks afraid to get out of their cars...see how they like it.

__________________
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
- Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
_________________

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
- Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)

Pharm Girl

that's exactly what was going on in my head...i knew i had rights and having no criminal record...i had to stand my ground...just because i'm dressed in camo (which is most of the time-winter inc.)..i felt like like i was being stereo-typed....'cause this cop (5 foot 2 and all of 22-24 years old) dint know me from a hole in the ground...even after they called in....they couldn't do it...wanted to...threatened they were going to...

so all I can say is "Suitcase"...

Not to mention that when they make outdoor drug busts....they bust when the weed is mature...they keep their fair share...in these parts we see it all da time!

__________________

.....The Time has Come to 'Walk the Talk'.....~

......A message for ALL from the Deer Tribe...~

It is a great journey —
but you must do the walking
and have the willingness to change
and make the leap into
the next level of human evolution.

Become an inquisitive free thinking
individual that takes
responsibility for your life
and the spiritual accountability to live life to the fullest.

Fuck the Monkeys

Ego Tripping

I just don't get arrested. Easy peasy.

__________________

~1~

Yeah common sense would dictate you just don't do those things for which you can be busted and if it is absolutely necessary then you treat the job like an escape from Auschwitz. Make sure the lights work, don't drive like an asshole and blend in are the rule of the day.

I'd much rather take the responsibility of making sure my rights aren't violated rather than leaving it in the hands of the man, dig what I'm sayin'?

__________________

stoneric

It doesn't matter if you have any reason to be concerned about getting stopped. It could get you out of a bullshit arrest or a legitimate(?) one. The point was to know your rights.

Galt

I suppose the question is, why would anyone ever trust these turds with anything, much less our rights?

__________________
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
- Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
_________________

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
- Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)

SageTree

Yea man, I'm just getting ready to hit the road for a month and don't plan on carrying anything with me. 'Probable cause' is just too easy imo.

Now that ^ ..... Crazy stuff... soon it'll be out birth certificates.

Here is a useful link for folks as well I think,

NORML State by State Laws

__________________

Roach

^ does the Normal site provide information on which states it's illegal to carry money ?

And just to be clear on the illegality of highway shakedowns, many independent truckers carry relatively large amounts of cash. A single tire blowout can cost hundreds of dollars to repair ( just one example.)

__________________

לזיין את הקופים

SageTree

I don't know Roach.

I know I think about that stuff crossing the border w/ cash/gifts/purchases, while in the States, but I doubt I'd fall under 'suspicion' other than the way I look

They LOVE me at the border... I get all kinds of attention.

__________________

deadhead94

I antagonize cops every chance I get. I've only been arrested twice, and I was caught red handed both times selling drugs. So there was no getting out of those. But I also live in Canada. Don't piss off trigger happy american pigs.

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SageTree

No doubt, I'm glad my first serious run it was up here and not down there.

Took my gram and laughed at the thought of doing paper work for that!

That's the lite version... but man... I counted my blessings on that one.

In the States I have a buddy get 1 year of probation for having an empty pipe under his car seat on a 'broken tail light' traffic stop.

__________________