Roach

msnbc.com Video Player

farmergiles

Lol so the Repubtrolls are walking away because their tax loopholes would be stopped?

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Roach

msnbc.com Video Player

Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

sorry, but msnbc STILL cannot write embed code !

farmergiles

Obama says 'run out of time' on debt ceiling - Americas - Al Jazeera English

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Roach

this post is somehow messed up.

I think it's the embed code originally had an error or something ?

but the replies are not showing when I pull the thread up.

If a mod can see this reply, they can can delete this thread, it's ok, because I made another, still the embed code is messed up in it, however the link I posted does work, and I think the replies will too.

John F. Kerry

does anyone remember how, last december, the democrats agreed to not raise taxes?


because, 1. the election of 2010 caused them to lose massive amounts of seats in the house and senate... and the anger of the population at the liberal expansion of the wellfare state at a time when what was already in place was hopelessly unsustainable... and 2. they knew, just like republicans do, that raising taxes on anyone , at the low point in a recession, simply will make things worse.

so that was what the DEMS did, and the logic they used, not 7 months ago.


... now today, what has changed?

well....clearly obama doesnt think its smart to raise taxes now either- because he knows hes gotta turn the economy around before the election, and he knows that raising taxes right now, especially to fund handouts, is just going to make the broader economy worse.

I would think you more liberal minded people could appreciate this. Sure we need to help the less fortunate... but to do that we need to have a growing, prosperous economy. Now, whatever we do, the economy is probably not going to skyrocket upwards anytime soon... but just about everyone, except maybe congressman israel and nancy pelosi, understand that raising taxes on anyone is just not going to make things better right now... we need more people with better jobs paying taxes...not the few people that are lucky enough to have them saddled with even more.

Now just stop there. Thats not politics. or posturing. Its the truth. If you disagree with that part, then lets argue about it. Because even if you are liberal minded, that seems to me an obvious thing. Like if you have weights on a scale and you add more, the scale goes down. If you add more taxes, hiring will slow, and consumption will slow....and we need to do the opposite for both.


Do you guys remember why democrats gave in to no tax increases last december? It was because they understood this. Class warfare aside. Like I said, even if your a smart democrat, and you want to help the less fortunate. you understand that when something is unsustainable.... it has to be changed or the economy has to be much better to fund it better.... or else it will just fall off a cliff.

What would happen if obama somehow managed to raise taxes now and unemployment went to 11%? well.... the new tax revenue would be OUTWEIGHED by the new unemployed benefits we have to pay out... and both sides, the unemployed, and the newly high taxed, would be pissed. Look at the other alternative. If we do something that lowers unemployment (like making markets and the world and business see that we are tackling our 15 trillion dollar and growing daily debt) or make people think that the 40 cents on every dollar the government doles out thats borrowed, is going to get smaller and less crazy... then maybe things will improve, and with a 7% unemployment rate people would feel more comfortable about some things , like , possibly, letting the bush tax cuts expire for the wealthy.

but even obama seems to acknowledge that the first step has got to be fixing the economy..... if we dont do that, we are literally just fighting over the crumbs....which is what some of the msnbc watching, salon reading, mother jones and nation spoonfeeding liberals want. Even obama, and most of the dems, especially all the ones who agreed to temporarily keep the bush cuts in place last december, seem to agree that its a bad way to go... but if you turn on msnbc you see these toolbags just revving people up

Its no wonder that ed shultz and rachel maddow and their propoganda machines have led to this- the poor and the hardcore liberals (maybe 10% of democrats) arent even thinking clearly about which comes first, the chicken or the egg.

We need to have a strong economy before we can even pay our current bills. but these people arent even interested in a strong economy... they just want more for their constituents.... but not, like, jobs for them, or work for them, but more entitlements and handouts for them. And other people dont even necessarily have a problem with that idea... just that, right now, with unemployment at 9.5 percent, and the fact that we already are spending 40 cents on the dollar of BORROWED money... the idea that we are gonna give out more freebies is just , not just bad, or stupid, but it almost belies self interest. These people dont care if the country is in a fucking black hole...as long as they can keep getting another round of freebies, and no matter where they money comes from...whether its from higher taxes that will hurt new job growth and the economy (and thats not a republican position, the dems agreed with that in december, its a common sense bipartisan observation), but they dont even care if their wellfare benefits come from chinese loans that their own children will have to repay.... so why would we think they care whether its comming out of the "jet flying fatcats"... there is so much rhetoric on the left, and it doesnt even make any sense. No one wants poor people to not have help and various things.... but we need to get our house in order or else the wellfare state they enjoyed last century ....theres just no way we will be able to keep it going, unless we fix it.

its like the cart before the horse. but the dems have their marching orders of class warfare blame the rich.. and so they wont even acknowledge that they agreed with the republican logic in december and how taxes would hurt job creating.... but now, for some reason, they reject that as posturing or some political shit... its not.

the dems have been doing this slippery lying shit talking out of the corner of their mouth while winking to their mother jones reading elites for like obamas entire presidency...and our economy has just gone from bad to hellish, but most of them are millionaires who are doing all this as a fun exercise and like philosophical debate and they dont even see how their stagnation and their class warfare has kept the middle class stuck with 10% unemployment and the longest recession in a century.

grrrr

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