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Old 08-20-2011, 08:39 AM   #1 (permalink)
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What would a debate about how to help employment look like?

So, if a totally non partisan open minded thoughtful person wanted the economy to get better and for the unemployment rate to go down, what sorts of policies would he want our government to adopt? i dont know, but i have some ideas, and id like to know if you guys do too- the key is to pick ideas from wherever they come from and look at them on their merits instead of in terms of politics... ill go first

Before you guys think ive jumped off the deep end, id just say that im asking this question for the sake of discussion and curiosity and trying to fix our economy.

I was reading something today that said something along these lines. And, alright, first of all, im not saying even if it would help job creation, it still might very well be unconstitutional...b ut just thinking about it as one potential thing that could help the economy.

If employers didnt have to worry about all the extra costs of healthcare for each new employee they take on, they might very well hire more people... what do u think? yea or nea?

i mean in some ways, it does kinda make sense. but also, this isnt counting the negative effects and huge costs this would impose on taxpaying members of society... but i think it just might be arguable that if people had guarenteed healthcare, that employers would be able to make hiring decisions a little bit more lightly...not to worry about the extra costs as much...etc.

i think there are some arguments against em as well... im not saying universal healthcare would be a good idea, all things considered, im just thinking that, in a vacuum, it just might help the job situation in our country somewhat....so im not giving it as an idea in the hope it gets done, or even that i would like it, having beurocrats make all the decisions... but it does seem like there are way too many impediments to making it easy for a company to make the decision to hire more and expand more.

now, here comes the part some of u probably wont like as much. another thing that would help umeployment is if we would decrease the minimum wage which used to be 5.15 and now in the 7 dollar range... i think both of these ideas are likely to be ones that would increase employment. because why would people hire young kids or low level people, when they have to pay them so much- many people would much rather make 5.40 an hour than 0 an hour.

....

so , we had such a long discussion about the debt ceiling... i think the next discussion is going to be about how to fix the job situation.... so there are two things i was thinking about, anybody else have some ideas? or comments about those?


some argue that its all down to consumption and if people wanted more stuff companies would hire... thats definately possible too. so im conflicted, which is why i present this question to the yahookan board.
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Old 08-20-2011, 09:19 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by John F. Kerry View Post
So, if a totally non partisan open minded thoughtful person wanted the economy to get better and for the unemployment rate to go down, what sorts of policies would he want our government to adopt? i dont know, but i have some ideas, and id like to know if you guys do too- the key is to pick ideas from wherever they come from and look at them on their merits instead of in terms of politics... ill go first
Herein lies the rub Johnny, the status quo is what it is and until we can outlaw corporate lobby of our so called 'representatives' we can't change anything. It's tough to tell the guy stuffing your 'campaign coffers' with cash that you aint gonna be his friend.

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Before you guys think ive jumped off the deep end, id just say that im asking this question for the sake of discussion and curiosity and trying to fix our economy.
So are you willing to say our current situation is highly beneficial to a very small group of corporate powers who aint gonna do shit because they are making ludicrous amounts of money? Until you do then nothing changes.

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I was reading something today that said something along these lines. And, alright, first of all, im not saying even if it would help job creation, it still might very well be unconstitutional...b ut just thinking about it as one potential thing that could help the economy.

If employers didn't have to worry about all the extra costs of healthcare for each new employee they take on, they might very well hire more people... what do u think? yea or nay?
You mean like in a single payer system, where individuals could purchase insurance from a freely competitive market thus dropping the insurance costs?!

I dunno man, sounds like radical socialism to me. Taking the power away from a private corporation and handing it to the people through free market choices.


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i mean in some ways, it does kinda make sense. but also, this isnt counting the negative effects and huge costs this would impose on taxpaying members of society... but i think it just might be arguable that if people had guaranteed healthcare, that employers would be able to make hiring decisions a little bit more lightly...not to worry about the extra costs as much...etc.
So you think that by saving employers the cost of providing artificially inflated insurance coverage, the employer will gladly pass those savings on to the worker in the form of higher wages...

Man you are naive aren't you.

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i think there are some arguments against em as well... im not saying universal healthcare would be a good idea, all things considered, im just thinking that, in a vacuum, it just might help the job situation in our country somewhat....so im not giving it as an idea in the hope it gets done, or even that i would like it, having bureaucrats make all the decisions... but it does seem like there are way too many impediments to making it easy for a company to make the decision to hire more and expand more.
So wait, you think employer provided health care isn't working? On the contrary my son, it works exactly the way it was supposed to. Captive audience, yearly option to change plans, the collusion between employers and InsureCorp is working juuuust fine.

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now, here comes the part some of u probably wont like as much. another thing that would help unemployment is if we would decrease the minimum wage which used to be 5.15 and now in the 7 dollar range... i think both of these ideas are likely to be ones that would increase employment. because why would people hire young kids or low level people, when they have to pay them so much- many people would much rather make 5.40 an hour than 0 an hour.

Shit man, for a second there I thought you lost your mind, glad to see you're still you.


Do you know why it's called 'minimum wage'? Because if they could pay you less, they would...

....

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so , we had such a long discussion about the debt ceiling... i think the next discussion is going to be about how to fix the job situation.... so there are two things i was thinking about, anybody else have some ideas? or comments about those?
Change everything. I have one wonderful idea whose time has come. We already subsidize the oil companies to the tune of billions of dollars a year, so why not just nationalize them? They want to make money sucking oil out of the ground and not give any back, we should just take it.

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some argue that its all down to consumption and if people wanted more stuff companies would hire... thats definately possible too. so im conflicted, which is why i present this question to the yahookan board.

That's a foolish thought, it's like saying 'I'd just have more if someone came along and gave it to me.'


You can flood the market with cheap goods but if you're paying the workers less than the goods cost, how can you expect people to consume more?!


I'm awake fifteen minutes, haven't had my joint or my coffee and already I'm making more sense than you...


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Old 08-20-2011, 10:33 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Sounds like you really have jumped on the rick perry bandwagon. Low paying benefitless jobs for all = utopia.
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Old 08-20-2011, 02:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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If you want to fix the unemployment problem, you have to fix its cause: the business cycle. To do this, you have to fix the money supply, and make banks responsible for carrying reserves equal to deposits. Prices can eventually balance with each other, and efficiency can return to trade, creating a level demand for labor.

The fact is, there is no shortage of work, and there never has been. No matter how many people you have, they will never run out of shit that has to get done. The only reason people are unemployed is that the price of labor is less inclined toward downward correction than the price of other things, so labor becomes overpriced for awhile as market prices correct (relatively speaking). Unemployment, like the rest of our financial woes, are a direct result of our fraudulent and parasitic banking system.



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Old 08-20-2011, 03:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Stop criminalizing poverty would be a good start. Cap off CEO salaries to a million a year max. Convict and imprison the greedy bankers and mortgage company CEOs that got us to this wretched end. Encourage small businesses by offering low interest loans to potential owners who want to open up shop. Weaken super companies like Walmart who fire people who even breathe the word "union". Raise the minimum wage as it is keeping millions of America in poverty and causing them to be overworked, uninsured and demoralized.

Overall, focus on raising the working conditions and morale of American workers and stop favoring the draconian slave drone mentality that has been festering for years.

But hey that's just me, a far left populist wanker so I guess my answers are pretty biased but what are you gonna do. I'm just a big softie.
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Old 08-20-2011, 05:12 PM   #6 (permalink)
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what sorts of policies would he want our government to adopt?
fully funded retraining programs,

sort of like china is currently doing.
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Old 08-20-2011, 05:15 PM   #7 (permalink)
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If employers didn't have to worry about all the extra costs of healthcare for each new employee they take on, they might very well hire more people... what do u think? yea or nay?
I'm a veteran, my discounted health care is available to me until death...I don't want "company" healthcare...I aleady sort of have it.
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Old 08-20-2011, 05:17 PM   #8 (permalink)
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so why not just nationalize them
socio-democracy ?

but I agree.

for that matter , why not nationalize the banks too.
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Old 08-20-2011, 05:22 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Hmmm. Socialism. All out communism.

I once heard a really smart man say that humanity needs to realize the fact that with the continuous advent of technology, not everyone is going to need to work in the future. The old mindset that "everyone needs to work" WILL be a thing of the past, eventually.

But for now I think welfare benefits are perfectly reasonable. Food stamps, low income housing assistance, government healthcare, etc. are all perfectly logical to keep people pacified during times of unemployment, so long as they don't feel entitled to shit like Hawaiian vacations and $300 shoes. If people are content to live in small apartments with all the bare essentials provided by taxes then it's really not much of a cost at all to society.

The only reason people weren't starving in the streets for the last 3 years was because Obama extended unemployment benefits to an unbelievably generous degree.
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Old 08-20-2011, 05:25 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I dunno man, sounds like radical socialism to me. Taking the power away from a private corporation and handing it to the people through free market choices.
I dunno , sounds like a radical attempt at democracy to me.
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Old 08-20-2011, 05:31 PM   #11 (permalink)
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for that matter , why not nationalize the banks too.
Impossible. The tail cannot wag the dog.



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Old 08-20-2011, 05:34 PM   #12 (permalink)
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But for now I think welfare benefits are perfectly reasonable. Food stamps, low income housing assistance, government healthcare, etc. are all perfectly logical to keep people pacified during times of unemployment,

however due to bank bailouts, and war spending, those social programs are being severly cut, not to mention that at least 30 states have requested loans from the federal government because their state unemployment funds are empty after 4 years of steadily growing unemployment. Pennsylvania will request 220 million just to cover september unemployment....and that does not include extensions.

I have 4 weeks left of the last uc extension...then it's full welfare.

last weeks classifieds had 1 help wanted ad.
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Last edited by Roach; 08-20-2011 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 08-20-2011, 05:42 PM   #13 (permalink)
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^You gonna get some section 8?
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Old 08-20-2011, 06:41 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Easily.

Take a page from history and reinvent the CCC for the modern era.
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Old 08-20-2011, 06:59 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Easily.

Take a page from history and reinvent the CCC for the modern era.

There would need to be a good deal of redundant regulation removed in order to go forward with a CCC/WPA type project and then on the other side how to keep the corporations from exploiting the programs.
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Old 08-20-2011, 09:24 PM   #16 (permalink)
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great responses guys, i nearly forgot i had made this thread and i come back and its like a goldmine of varying opinions! w00t!
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Old 08-21-2011, 01:02 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Easily.

Take a page from history and reinvent the CCC for the modern era.
The Great Depression saw no relief from high unemployment for over ten years. I don't see how emulating FDR's failed programs is going to fix anything.



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Old 08-21-2011, 10:16 AM   #18 (permalink)
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^You gonna get some section 8?
gonna try.

section 8 is a cash voucher for housing that would sure help in moving out of the slums and back amongst the living It moves with the tennant.
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Old 08-21-2011, 10:54 AM   #19 (permalink)
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The Great Depression saw no relief from high unemployment for over ten years. I don't see how emulating FDR's failed programs is going to fix anything.



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I hardly call the massive amounts of infrastructure and national parks that have been used for generations a failure. May not have boosted the economy like FDR hoped, but it created a lot of services that we still use today.

Rehabbing our aging infrastructure and making t more efficient with modern methods would at least be a step in the right direction.
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Old 08-21-2011, 12:39 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Here are local jobs as easy as planting a seed...

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