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Old 08-24-2011, 06:05 AM   #1 (permalink)
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PART 2: (The Open) Country wrestles with spike in food stamp use

So.... The other thread was closed by the OP and I REALLY think this is a conversation that needs to continue to happen....

I've quoted the entire thread, this is the full discussion.
Feel free to quote from it and keep on talking.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Even as demand rises, cutting program becomes an option for debt hawks

NEW YORK — Genna Saucedo supervises cashiers at a Wal-Mart in Pico Rivera, Calif., but her wages aren't enough to feed herself and her 12-year-old son.

Saucedo, who earns $9.70 an hour for about 26 hours a week and lives with her mother, is one of the many Americans who survive because of government handouts in what has rapidly become a food stamp nation.

Altogether, there are now almost 46 million people in the United States on food stamps, roughly 15 percent of the population. That's an increase of 74 percent since 2007, just before the financial crisis and a deep recession led to mass job losses.

At the same time, the cost doubled to reach $68 billion in 2010 — more than a third of the amount the U.S. government received in corporate income tax last year — which means the program has started to attract the attention of some Republican lawmakers looking for ways to cut the nation's budget deficit.

While there are clearly some cases of abuse by people who claim food stamps but don't really need them, for many Americans like Saucedo there is little current alternative if they are to put food on the table while paying rent and utility bills.

"It's kind of sad that even though I'm working that I need to have government assistance. I have asked them to please put me on full-time so I can have benefits," said the 32-year-old.

She's worked at Wal-Mart for nine months, and applied for food stamps as soon as her probation ended. She said plenty of her colleagues are in the same situation.

So are her customers. Bill Simon, head of Wal-Mart's U.S. operations, told a conference call last Tuesday that the company had seen an increase in the number of shoppers relying on government assistance for food.

About forty percent of food stamp recipients are, like Saucedo, in households in which at least one member of the family earns wages. Many more could be eligible: the government estimates one in three who could be on the program are not.

"If they're working, they often think they can't get help. But people can't support their families on $10, $11, $12 an hour jobs, especially when you add transport, clothes, rent." said Carolyn McLaughlin, executive director of BronxWorks, a social services organization in New York.The maximum amount a family of four can receive in food stamps is $668 a month. They can only be used to buy food — though not hot food — and for plants and seeds to grow food.

Presidents Bill Clinton, George W. Bush and Barack Obama all made efforts to raise awareness about the program and remove the stigma associated with it.

In 2004, paper coupons were replaced with cards similar to debit cards onto which benefits can be loaded. In 2008 they were renamed Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program benefits though most people still call them food stamps.

Despite the bipartisan support for the program in the past, some of the recent political rhetoric has food stamp advocates worried.

Presidential hopeful Newt Gingrich last year derided Democrats as "the party of food stamps". And Republican leaders in the House of Representatives propose changing the program so that the funding is through a "block grant" to the states, rather than allowing it to grow automatically when needed due to an emergency, such as a natural disaster or economic crisis.
In some parts of the country, shoppers using food stamps have almost become the norm. In May 2011, a third of all people in Alabama were on food stamps — though part of that was because of emergency assistance after communities were destroyed by a series of destructive tornadoes. Washington D.C., Mississippi, New Mexico, Oregon and Tennessee all had about a fifth of their population on food stamps that month.

"Food stamps have traditionally been insulated from politics," said Parke Wilde, professor of U.S. food policy at Tufts University. "But as you look over the current fiscally conservative proposals, the question is, has something fundamentally changed?"

Over the past 20 years, the characteristics of the program's recipients have changed. In 1989, a higher percentage were on benefits than working, but as of 2009 a higher percentage had earned income.

"SNAP is increasingly work support," said Ed Bolen, an analyst at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.

And that's only likely to get worse: So far in the recovery, jobs growth has been concentrated in lower-wage occupations, with minimal growth in middle-income wages as many higher-paid blue collar jobs have disappeared.

And 6 percent of the 72.9 million Americans paid by the hour received wages at or below the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour in 2010. That's up from 4.9 percent in 2009, and 3 percent in 2002, according to government data.

Bolen said just based on income, minimum wage single parents are almost always eligible for food stamps.

"This becomes an implicit subsidy for low-wage jobs and in terms of incentives for higher wage job creation that really is not a good thing," said Arindrajit Dube, an economics professor at the University of Massachusetts Amherst, whose research shows raising the minimum wage would spur economic activity.

Until a couple of weeks ago Tashawna Green, 21, from Queens Village, New York, worked 25 hours a week at an $8.08 hourly rate at retailer Target. She is on food stamps, and says a good number of her former colleagues are too.

"It's a good thing that the government helps, but if employers paid enough and gave enough hours, then we wouldn't need to be on food stamps," said Green, who has a six-year-old daughter.

Of course, with an unemployment rate over 9 percent, some argue that those with any job at all are lucky.

Millions of Americans whose unemployment benefits have expired have to exist only on food stamps and other government aid, such as Medicaid healthcare support.And even with unemployment benefits, said Jessica King, 25, from Portland, Oregon, her family juggles bills to ensure the electricity stays on. They are also selling some belongings on Craigslist to raise funds.

King's husband Stephen, 30, an electronics assembly worker, lost his job two months ago when she was seven months pregnant with their second child. It was the third time he has been laid off since 2008.

She said she was reluctant, initially, to go on food stamps.

"I felt the way our national debt was going I didn't want to be part of the problem," said King, who used to work as a cook at a faith-based non-profit organization.

"But I didn't know what else to do and I got to a point where I swallowed my pride and decided to do what was best for my daughter."


Quote:
Originally Posted by HTAM View Post
Food Stamps, SNAP, whatever you want to call it-is some of the best stimulus the economy can have.

MORE people should qualify for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewish Pork View Post
Dems are just so generous with other people's money...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grieves View Post
The fact that I have seen so many tweekers/crackheads trying to sell food stamps at the stores lately makes me feel less inclined to give a fuck...

I don't like knowing that I am paying to have some twack hustle their babies food monies for dope monies...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewish Pork View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grieves
The fact that I have seen so many tweekers/crackheads trying to sell food stamps at the stores lately makes me feel less inclined to give a fuck...

I don't like knowing that I am paying to have some twack hustle their babies food monies for dope monies...
That is the problem with entitlement programs. They're so easy to qualify for and almost impossible to take away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlteredStateGrl View Post
Food "stamps". Lol, they're debit cards now. At least in Cali. Haven't seen an actual paper one in yearrrrrrrrrrs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SageTree View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by HTAM
Food Stamps, SNAP, whatever you want to call it-is some of the best stimulus the economy can have.

MORE people should qualify for them.
THIS!


I tend to believe that if one has never really been hungry they aren't going to get how important keeping folks fed is.... Think shits bad now? Wait until there is a starving mob knocking on your door.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewish Pork View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SageTree
THIS!


I tend to believe that if one has never really been hungry they aren't going to get how important keeping folks fed is.... Think shits bad now? Wait until there is a starving mob knocking on your door.
where did all of this capacity to riot come from? I thought the people on welfare were not physically able to work. How can they riot?


I'm drawing a blank here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewish Pork View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlteredStateGrl
Food "stamps". Lol, they're debit cards now. At least in Cali. Haven't seen an actual paper one in yearrrrrrrrrrs.
It's not enough that we're paying for their food. We have to consider their feelings while they're taking our money. Wouldn't want them to be drug down with the stigma of paying for their food with actual food stamps. It might hurt their pride =\
Quote:
Originally Posted by SageTree View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewish Pork
where did all of this capacity to riot come from? I thought the people on welfare were not physically able to work. How can they riot?


I'm drawing a blank here.
I'll fill it in....


It's called being too cynical and generalizing
Quote:
Originally Posted by SageTree View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewish Pork
It's not enough that we're paying for their food. We have to consider their feelings while they're taking our money. Wouldn't want them to be drug down with the stigma of paying for their food with actual food stamps. It might hurt their pride =\
Funny enough... feeling respected or 'normal' can go a long way in keeping people's spirit higher and increases their ability to rise out of the situation they are in. Not everyone who does or ever has used social programs wants to stay on them till they die.....

Unless you include Social Security




Also: See above post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewish Pork View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SageTree
I'll fill it in....


It's called being too cynical and generalizing
How is that generalizing... I thought the intent of the program was to provide food to people that couldn't work. Am I not correct in that assertion?


All I'm saying is that if they're capable of rioting then they're capable of getting a job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post

Quote:
I thought the people on welfare were not physically able to work.
and you would be wrong, however a majority of those receiving cash for housing and utilities are elderly or disabled.


Pork, I cannot believe you're being such an idiot about welfare programs. There are those few who abuse the system, but the majority are truely in need of assistance.
I posted the article to point out how long term unemployment has deeply affected this program, which does not show up in "unemployment rates".
Cut the programs that offer support to those in need and you will see even a greater increase in the currently increasing crime rates, caused by despiration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewish Pork View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SageTree
Funny enough... feeling respected or 'normal' can go a long way in keeping people's spirit higher and increases their ability to rise out of the situation they are in. Not everyone who does or ever has used social programs wants to stay on them till they die.....

Unless you include Social Security




Also: See above post
Would you agree with an unconditional 1 year cap on all of the programs then?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewish Pork View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach
and you would be wrong, however a majority of those receiving cash for housing and utilities are elderly or disabled.


Pork, I cannot believe you're being such an idiot about welfare programs. There are those few who abuse the system, but the majority are truely in need of assistance.
I posted the article to point out how long term unemployment has deeply affected this program, which does not show up in "unemployment rates".
Cut the programs that offer support to those in need and you will see even a greater increase in the currently increasing crime rates, caused by despiration.
So the elderly and disabled are going to be the ones rioting (since they're the majority of the recipients).


You basically contradicted yourself in the same post. Gotta proofread, bro... Or is something that only idiots practice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post

Quote:
they're debit cards now
pre-paid debit cards...

a single person in need of assistance, gets $90.00 a month deposited to the card, and their income is reviewed every 6 months.

that works out to $3.00 a day, for those of you who think it's such a big handout.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SageTree View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewish Pork View Post
I thought the people on welfare were not physically able to work..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewish Pork View Post
How is that generalizing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewish Pork View Post
I thought the people on welfare were not physically able to work..
ALL people?.... that is where the generalizing would start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewish Pork View Post
I thought the intent of the program was to provide food to people that couldn't work. Am I not correct in that assertion?

All I'm saying is that if they're capable of rioting then they're capable of getting a job.
You don't have to pass a physical test to riot... but that is besides the point.

People get welfare for a LOT of reasons, besides disability/injury.


Roach rather summed things up pretty well..... minus the idiot part....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Pork, I cannot believe you're being such an idiot about welfare programs. There are those few who abuse the system, but the majority are truely in need of assistance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewish Pork View Post
How is that generalizing...
I think you're getting the gist of it by this point?




Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewish Pork View Post
Would you agree with an unconditional 1 year cap on all of the programs then?
Even Social Security and Medicare for the Elderly?

Better not run for Prez Broseph

I keed....

I'm okay with reform and review of people using some assistance programs.
As long as it's compassionate and in the person's best interest.... not based on cold hard numbers.

I'm also interested in there being more ways for people to empower themselves and grow into a more stable life.

Some of us were/are very fortunate to have had such good instructions and a foot hold in life....

Not everyone learned the 'right basics' because their learned 'basics' where much more rudimentary.

If you grew up in a house where you didn't eat every night or if your house was a car, because a parent couldn't hold or get housing and/or job, then I imagine your learning capacity for the 'right basics' would be greatly diminished along with the mental health issues that can result from a 'less than great' childhood.....

Why further punish people who never got a chance or must of one?

The fact is that there is a lot of mental health issues associated with the realm of assistance and social-economic status in life, and it's not mutually exclusive which comes first.


I'm willing to bet if you ever hit a hard place and weren't able to get money for food and shelter you'd have a LOT less problem with thinking assistance was a work while venture to help create a healthy society.

Am I right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SageTree View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewish Pork
You basically contradicted yourself in the same post. Gotta proofread, bro... Or is something that only idiots practice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach
Pork, I cannot believe you're being such an idiot about welfare programs. There are those few who abuse the system, but the majority are truely in need of assistance.
Drawing attention to something doesn't mean it's necessary to call names Brothers

I welcome your opinions and engagements in the conversation, but lets keep it on a good level of real.... not that 'when keeping it real goes wrong level'
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