Im all for taking care of our own shit...but maybe we should pay a LITTLE attention to foreign affairs...

John F. Kerry · 10-23-2011, 08:27 AM

American Forces in Iraq and Afghanistan - Interactive Graphic - NYTimes.com

pretty interesting graphic.

now, everyone has been so busy shitting on obama for his mis-handling of the economy for a long time now.

it seems like no one is really paying attention to anything else.

and then, obama hits us with this bombshell- "all troops out of iraq by the end of 2011"...

now, im all for a decrease in overseas military adventurism...but not because I think its never a good idea- rather because i think we need to heal and refit and get ready for the next legitimate time when we have to do the same thing again.

so im just kinda confused at obamas seemingly shortsighted policy here.

a few years ago, he said we would keep some troops there- why? "To protect our institutions, our friends, the iraqi people, etc..."

now, after a year of negotiations , instead of doing that, we are leaving all of our friends and allies there (not to mention our multi billion dollar new embassy) just to the goodwill of the Sadr army and Tehrans buddy Maliki?

wtf.

like i understand why we are leaving -we couldnt get an agreement about Us troop immunity -which is what we have everywhere else we are stationed... but what I dont understand is how obama is paiting this as a success... he always tries to spin things to look good, even when they clearly arent as good as he makes them sound... here its not "they kicked us the fuck out" but "hey all you liberals guess what i kept my promise to end the war and get our troops out"....

but if u look at that nytimes graphic you see that under bush there were 30,000 troops in afghanistan, and now, under obama, there are 100k+.... so we certainly arent sending the troops "home" we are sending them to other shithole places....and ones that are less strategically and economically important....

So, its a pretty complex issue, and i dont suggest that im considering every angle here... but i think we should be talking more about this stuff- id like to see the presidential debates go at least a little bit into foreign policy since its been focused on such stupid shit like hermain cain lately...

if we spend all this money , lives, and years doing something... we ought not just say "fuck it" at the last minute , and we ought not try to sell it or spin it as a "good thing" and "promise kept" if the facts dont bear that out...

if sadr militias take over our baghdad embassy on 1/1/12....obama is gonna look pretty fucking stupid.

kamikazi89 · 10-23-2011, 08:38 AM

u and mit r really pissing against the wind with this one
Iraq
he campaigned on ending the war in Iraq, and was probably a key factor in his election
PS
White House Confident State Department Can Manage Enormous Private Security Contractor Force in Iraq | FDL News Desk

Roach · 10-23-2011, 10:47 AM

But if that’s the case, why has the White House been blocking oversight about basic facts regarding the composition and makeup of the private security force? We don’t know basic questions, like the amount of armed personnel and the rules of engagement. I asked Rhodes this question, about why the State Department has not been forthcoming on oversight. “It’s our responsibility to be as transparent as possible,” Rhodes said. “And we are committed to fulfilling those responsibilities… we’ve been putting together the projected staffing. We did want to finalize how many troops would be in the country, as that has some bearing on this.” Rhodes said that, now that there is greater clarity about the military footprint, or lack thereof, the State Department should be able to be more responsive to oversight requests about the nature of the private military contractor mission. “We have an obligation to fulfill those requests,” Rhodes said.

Responding to a question from Wired reporter and former FDL colleague Spencer Ackerman, who wrote skeptically about the end of the war earlier today, Rhodes said that the State Department and the US government “learned a lot of lessons on private security contractors” during the war, and hopefully they would apply those lessons to managing what amounts to the size of a military combat brigade full of them. “In the planning that’s been done for the end of the war, the State Department has been building out its own capacity to manage a contractor presence,” Rhodes added. “The planning has been going on at State for a couple years now. You’re correct that this is a uniquely large State Department civilian footprint. But we want to make sure our people are secure.”

Rhodes concluded that he expected the security contractor footprint to decrease over time, as more Iraqis are hired to manage security of the diplomatic personnel.

What we don’t know is what manner of shadow force, with the CIA or JSOC or some other covert operation, will remain in Iraq to deal with counter-terrorism operations. Increasingly, this is the way our wars are going, away from overt troop deployments and toward covert operations that get little attention.

...and we Americans still pick up the tab.

stoneric · 10-23-2011, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John F. Kerry

American Forces in Iraq and Afghanistan - Interactive Graphic - NYTimes.com

pretty interesting graphic.

now, everyone has been so busy shitting on obama for his mis-handling of the economy for a long time now.

it seems like no one is really paying attention to anything else.

and then, obama hits us with this bombshell- "all troops out of iraq by the end of 2011"...

now, im all for a decrease in overseas military adventurism...but not because I think its never a good idea- rather because i think we need to heal and refit and get ready for the next legitimate time when we have to do the same thing again.

so im just kinda confused at obamas seemingly shortsighted policy here.

a few years ago, he said we would keep some troops there- why? "To protect our institutions, our friends, the iraqi people, etc..."

now, after a year of negotiations , instead of doing that, we are leaving all of our friends and allies there (not to mention our multi billion dollar new embassy) just to the goodwill of the Sadr army and Tehrans buddy Maliki?

wtf.

like i understand why we are leaving -we couldnt get an agreement about Us troop immunity -which is what we have everywhere else we are stationed... but what I dont understand is how obama is paiting this as a success... he always tries to spin things to look good, even when they clearly arent as good as he makes them sound... here its not "they kicked us the fuck out" but "hey all you liberals guess what i kept my promise to end the war and get our troops out"....

but if u look at that nytimes graphic you see that under bush there were 30,000 troops in afghanistan, and now, under obama, there are 100k+.... so we certainly arent sending the troops "home" we are sending them to other shithole places....and ones that are less strategically and economically important....

So, its a pretty complex issue, and i dont suggest that im considering every angle here... but i think we should be talking more about this stuff- id like to see the presidential debates go at least a little bit into foreign policy since its been focused on such stupid shit like hermain cain lately...

if we spend all this money , lives, and years doing something... we ought not just say "fuck it" at the last minute , and we ought not try to sell it or spin it as a "good thing" and "promise kept" if the facts dont bear that out...

if sadr militias take over our baghdad embassy on 1/1/12....obama is gonna look pretty fucking stupid.

stoneric · 10-23-2011, 12:00 PM

How about obomba is just carrying out what bush started. bush signed the agreement saying we'd be out by Dec of 2012. obobma doesn't want to leave, it's just that the Iraqis don't want to give the Americans immunity when we kill with impunity. And if we were concerned about Iranian influence we should have left their bitter enemy in power. And please don't call Iraqis our friends and allies. Destroying their country hardly makes us either.

DdC · 10-23-2011, 12:22 PM

Bush trashed the economy and now the neocons obstruct every attempt to create jobs. Suck on a big wet turd you fucking scum. Now all you butterball turkey's see this as siding with Obombo are fools. Just bashing an ugly lying troll!

“Perfectly Legal” by David Cay Johnston
A Pulitzer-winning New York Times reporter argues that the rich have ruthlessly rigged the tax system against the rest of us. Aren't you shocked?
By Farhad Manjoo

In 1913, the year the United States created the federal income tax, a small company near Chicago, CCH Inc., published a handy little volume documenting every tax regulation newly on the books. At 400 pages, the “Standard Federal Tax Reporter” wasn’t exactly a brisk read, but CCH’s publishing decision proved prescient. Federal taxes, it turned out, were an idea with permanence; the U.S. tax code, in all its future labyrinthine intricacies, would be a growth industry. In the 91 years since it was first published, CCH’s “Tax Reporter,” now the tax accountant’s Bible, has expanded nearly exponentially by the divine right of Congress; the 2003 volume outlining every tax rule in the land drones on for 45 times the length of the Good Book — almost 55,000 pages. continue reading

Nothing personal, just the business of war

The NWO is the Top 1%

We are the People...

"Give me control of a Nation's money
and I care not who makes the laws."
- Mayer Amschel Bauer (Rothschild)

Mikey · 10-23-2011, 12:28 PM

what i dont get
is he says all troops will be out of iraq by 2011

buuut the american embassy in Iraq will have 9,000 private military contractors

wtf doesnt sound like all american troops will be out afterall

Roach · 10-23-2011, 12:41 PM

Well after an investment of well over a trillion dollars and over a million troops having served in the two current wars, what did you expect.

democracy ?

Mikey · 10-23-2011, 01:21 PM

or at least better propaganda.

Captain Cannabis · 10-23-2011, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roach

Well after an investment of well over a trillion dollars and over a million troops having served in the two current wars, what did you expect.

democracy ?

democracy ain't easy

Huge turnout in Tunisia's Arab Spring election

Roach · 10-23-2011, 02:57 PM

or cheap.

I'm with Greece where communists riot with anarchists.

of coarse we pay for that too.

fenderbender · 10-23-2011, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John F. Kerry

lol does what i say even make sense? I dont think so.

Purd Hupley · 10-23-2011, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoneric

obobma doesn't want to leave

Wait, getting out was what he ran on, but made no effort. But now he doesn't want to leave, but is going to move Heaven and Earth to make it happen?

We should pay no attention to foreign affairs. We did that in the 1920s and 30s and nothing bad happened.

DdC · 10-23-2011, 05:46 PM

Now i have to feel sorry for ya, damnit!

The Neocon's goal is to stop funding states and locals as much as possible, and keep it all in Wall St and DC. Also by sucking out as much as they can. Buy Local! First they cut the poor, then they replace our workers with foreign scab sweatshops. Soon they won't even need us as consumers. Steady building China and India's middle class to do that. It's Neocons, not republicans or democrats. They just give in to the coercion. The drug war is a product they sell. But we are the people, and we are the majority if only we the people didn't fight each other. We'd have it all!

Former Financial Regulator William Black:
Occupy Wall Street a Counter to White-Collar Fraud

Each time a (person) stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others... he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring those ripples build a current that sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance.
-- Robert F. Kennedy

Freed U.S. Hikers Speak at Occupy Oakland
Express Support for California Prisoners on Hunger Strike

"The most difficult struggle of all is the one within ourselves. Let us not get accustomed and adjusted to these conditions. The one who adjusts ceases to discriminate between good and evil. He becomes a slave in body and soul. Whatever may happen to you, remember always: Don't adjust! Revolt against the reality!"
-- Mordechai Anielewicz, Warsaw, 1943

New Yorkers Protest NYPD "Stop and Frisk" Program

"Now this conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large armaments industry is new in the American experience. The total influence, economic, political, even spiritual, is felt in every city, in every statehouse, every office in the federal government. We must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes."
-- President Dwight D. Eisenhower,
farewell address January 17, 1961

"You're enough of a pro," Nixon tells Shafer, "to know that for you to come out with something that would run counter to what the Congress feels and what the country feels, and what we're planning to do, would make your commission just look bad as hell."

Neocons or WoD?
The more things change the more they remain the same...

SCAPEGOATING - Blaming social problems on a cultural, racial, or behaviorial group. PREJUDICE - Selling the public on the idea that all members of the targeted group are 'bad' people. LIES - 'Facts', which cannot be verified, and pseudo-scientific studies are used as propaganda against the targeted group. History is rewritten. NO PUBLIC DEBATE - "These people have no right to have their viewpoiunt aired." and " Anyone who disagrees or questions us must be one of them!" DEHUMANIZATION - Characterizing all members of a targeted group as subhuman and typically capable of monstrous deeds and/or crimes. PROTECT OUR CHILDREN - "They corrupt, seduce and/or destroy our children." CIVIL LIBERTIES SACRIFICED - "We must give up some of our freedoms, liberties, and rights in order to combat this menace to society." LEGAL DESCRIMINATION - Laws criminalize members of targeted group and they may be denied jobs, the right to own property and/or be restricted as to where they may live or go. INFORMERS - Citizens are urged to 'turn in' friends, neighbors, co-workers and family members. SECRET POLICE - Non-uniformed police squads set up to wage war on targeted groups utilizing deception, infiltration, espionage and entrapment. CONFISCATION OF PROPERTY - Property and assets are seized from people who are members of targeted group. Property may be divided between the informer and the state. REMOVAL FROM SOCIETY - Prisons, rehabilitation camps, 'hospitals', executions and genocide. ("Kill them All" "Zero Tolerance")

"There is no nonsense so arrant that it cannot be made the
creed of the vast majority by adequate governmental action."
-- Bertrand Russell, "An Outline of Intellectual Rubbish"

Fuck the Trolls!

kamikazi89 · 10-24-2011, 05:45 AM

Quote:

From a CNN report on why the Iraqi Government rejected the Obama administration’s conditions for keeping U.S. troops in Iraq beyond the 2011 deadline:

U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta and other top brass have repeatedly said any deal to keep U.S. troops in Iraq beyond the withdrawal deadline would require a guarantee of legal protection for American soldiers.

But the Iraqis refused to agree to that, opening up the prospect of Americans being tried in Iraqi courts and subjected to Iraqi punishment.

The negotiations were strained following WikiLeaks’ release of a diplomatic cable that alleged Iraqi civilians, including children, were killed in a 2006 raid by American troops rather than in an airstrike as the U.S. military initially reported.

That description from CNN of the cable’s contents is, unsurprisingly, diluted to the point of obfuscation. That cable was released by WikiLeaks in May, 2011, and, as McClatchy put it at the time, “provides evidence that U.S. troops executed at least 10 Iraqi civilians, including a woman in her 70s and a 5-month-old infant, then called in an airstrike to destroy the evidence, during a controversial 2006 incident in the central Iraqi town of Ishaqi.” The U.S. then lied and claimed the civilians were killed by the airstrike. Although this incident had been previously documented by the U.N. special rapporteur on extrajudicial, summary or arbitrary executions, the high-profile release of the cable by WikiLeaks generated substantial attention (and disgust) in Iraq, which made it politically unpalatable for the Iraqi government to grant the legal immunity the Obama adminstration was seeking. Indeed, it was widely reported at the time the cable was released that it made it much more difficult for Iraq to allow U.S. troops to remain beyond the deadline under any conditions.

In other words, whoever leaked that cable cast light on a heinous American war crime and, by doing so, likely played some significant role in thwarting an agreement between the Obama and Maliki governments to keep U.S. troops in Iraq and thus helped end this stage of the Iraq war (h/t Trevor Timm). Moreover, whoever leaked these cables — as even virulent WikiLeaks critic Bill Keller repeatedly acknowledged — likely played some significant in helping spark the Arab Spring protests by documenting just how deeply corrupt those U.S.-supported kleptocrats were. And in general, whoever leaked those cables has done more to publicize the corrupt, illegal and deceitful acts of the world’s most powerful factions — and to educate the world about how they behave — than all “watchdog” media outlets combined (indeed, the amount of news reports on a wide array of topics featuring WikiLeaks cables as the primary source is staggering). In sum, whoever leaked those cables is responsible for one of the most consequential, beneficial and noble acts of this generation.

And yet (or more accurately: therefore) the person accused of accomplishing all of this, Bradley Manning, has been imprisoned for more than a year without trial, and, if convicted, is almost certain to remain in prison for many more years (with the possibility, albeit unlikely, of death, and as the Obama administration continues to block an unmonitored visit by the U.N. official investigating what had been the inhumane conditions of his detention). If one believes the authenticity of the chat logs produced by Wired, Manning’s goal in leaking those cables — “hopefully worldwide discussion, debates, and reforms . . . i want people to see the truth… regardless of who they are… because without information, you cannot make informed decisions as a public” – have been fulfilled beyond what must have been his wildest dreams. Assuming the truth of those chat logs, he was motivated precisely by seeing cables of the sort that detailed this civilian slaughter and subsequent cover-up in Iraq, and the extreme levels of theft and oppression by Arab dictators, and the desire to have the world know about it. Meanwhile, those responsible for the Iraq War, and who suppressed freedom and democracy in the Middle East by propping up those tyrants, and who committed a slew of other illegal and deeply corrupt acts, continue to prosper and wield substantial power.

History is filled with examples of those who most bravely challenged and subverted corrupted power and who sought reforms being rewarded with prison or worse, at the hands of those whose bad actions they exposed. If Bradley Manning did leak these cables, his imprisonment is a prime example of that inverted justice.

Glenn Greenwald

Follow Glenn Greenwald on Twitter: @ggreenwald.More Glenn Greenwald

stoneric · 10-24-2011, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purd Hupley

Wait, getting out was what he ran on, but made no effort. But now he doesn't want to leave, but is going to move Heaven and Earth to make it happen?

We should pay no attention to foreign affairs. We did that in the 1920s and 30s and nothing bad happened.

Move heaven and earth to make it happen? What are you talking about?

And of course there is always the threat of another hitler to make each and every excursion legitimate.:rolleyes :

Purd Hupley · 10-24-2011, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoneric

Move heaven and earth to make it happen? What are you talking about?

And of course there is always the threat of another hitler to make each and every excursion legitimate.:rolleyes :

Moving 40,000 troops and equipment in 2 months is going to be as simple as a snap of the fingers? Are they just going to get Eurorail passes? Yes, Heaven and Earth.

stoneric · 10-25-2011, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purd Hupley

Moving 40,000 troops and equipment in 2 months is going to be as simple as a snap of the fingers? Are they just going to get Eurorail passes? Yes, Heaven and Earth.

I wasn't arguing about the logistical nightmare it might be, my point was obama doesn't want to leave. Your heavan and earth comment implied obomba actually wants to leave which is nonsense. He has to leave because the ungrateful Iraqis won't let our trained killers a free pass to continue killing with impunity.

Purd Hupley · 10-25-2011, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoneric

I wasn't arguing about the logistical nightmare it might be, my point was obama doesn't want to leave. Your heavan and earth comment implied obomba actually wants to leave which is nonsense. He has to leave because the ungrateful Iraqis won't let our trained killers a free pass to continue killing with impunity.

The logistical nightmare it will be.

My point was, and still is, that Obama ran on getting out of Iraq. But you're saying that now he doesn't want to leave. I'm just not sure when, or if, that mindshift happened. Or did he not run on getting out of Iraq? Or was it some nuanced kindasorta thing that he ran on that had no real substance...like Hope and Change?

stoneric · 10-25-2011, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purd Hupley

The logistical nightmare it will be.

My point was, and still is, that Obama ran on getting out of Iraq. But you're saying that now he doesn't want to leave. I'm just not sure when, or if, that mindshift happened. Or did he not run on getting out of Iraq? Or was it some nuanced kindasorta thing that he ran on that had no real substance...like Hope and Change?

Come on man, obomba praised the surge after he became pres. The mindset changed almost immediately. And he forgot all about the rule of law thing he campaigned on otherwise bush and cheney would be behind bars right now instead of making book deals. The only promise he kept was to escalate in Afghanistan.

10-23-2011, 10:47 AM	#3 (permalink)
Roach Victoria Aut Mors Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7,184 Thanks: 2,372 Thanked 1,987 Times in 1,509 Posts	But if that’s the case, why has the White House been blocking oversight about basic facts regarding the composition and makeup of the private security force? We don’t know basic questions, like the amount of armed personnel and the rules of engagement. I asked Rhodes this question, about why the State Department has not been forthcoming on oversight. “It’s our responsibility to be as transparent as possible,” Rhodes said. “And we are committed to fulfilling those responsibilities… we’ve been putting together the projected staffing. We did want to finalize how many troops would be in the country, as that has some bearing on this.” Rhodes said that, now that there is greater clarity about the military footprint, or lack thereof, the State Department should be able to be more responsive to oversight requests about the nature of the private military contractor mission. “We have an obligation to fulfill those requests,” Rhodes said. Responding to a question from Wired reporter and former FDL colleague Spencer Ackerman, who wrote skeptically about the end of the war earlier today, Rhodes said that the State Department and the US government “learned a lot of lessons on private security contractors” during the war, and hopefully they would apply those lessons to managing what amounts to the size of a military combat brigade full of them. “In the planning that’s been done for the end of the war, the State Department has been building out its own capacity to manage a contractor presence,” Rhodes added. “The planning has been going on at State for a couple years now. You’re correct that this is a uniquely large State Department civilian footprint. But we want to make sure our people are secure.” Rhodes concluded that he expected the security contractor footprint to decrease over time, as more Iraqis are hired to manage security of the diplomatic personnel. What we don’t know is what manner of shadow force, with the CIA or JSOC or some other covert operation, will remain in Iraq to deal with counter-terrorism operations. Increasingly, this is the way our wars are going, away from overt troop deployments and toward covert operations that get little attention. ...and we Americans still pick up the tab. __________________ לזיין את הקופים

10-23-2011, 12:22 PM	#6 (permalink)
DdC Decade Yahookan Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: Santa Cruz,CA,USA Posts: 2,117 Blog Entries: 5 Thanks: 51 Thanked 607 Times in 399 Posts	jfq you're still a fucking troll bitch! Bush trashed the economy and now the neocons obstruct every attempt to create jobs. Suck on a big wet turd you fucking scum. Now all you butterball turkey's see this as siding with Obombo are fools. Just bashing an ugly lying troll! “Perfectly Legal” by David Cay Johnston A Pulitzer-winning New York Times reporter argues that the rich have ruthlessly rigged the tax system against the rest of us. Aren't you shocked? By Farhad Manjoo In 1913, the year the United States created the federal income tax, a small company near Chicago, CCH Inc., published a handy little volume documenting every tax regulation newly on the books. At 400 pages, the “Standard Federal Tax Reporter” wasn’t exactly a brisk read, but CCH’s publishing decision proved prescient. Federal taxes, it turned out, were an idea with permanence; the U.S. tax code, in all its future labyrinthine intricacies, would be a growth industry. In the 91 years since it was first published, CCH’s “Tax Reporter,” now the tax accountant’s Bible, has expanded nearly exponentially by the divine right of Congress; the 2003 volume outlining every tax rule in the land drones on for 45 times the length of the Good Book — almost 55,000 pages. continue reading Nothing personal, just the business of war The NWO is the Top 1% We are the People... "Give me control of a Nation's money and I care not who makes the laws." - Mayer Amschel Bauer (Rothschild) __________________ Al Capone and Watergate were red herrings to divert the countries attention from the Fascist acts of eliminating competition. Booze/Ethanol then Ganja//Hemp.

10-23-2011, 12:28 PM	#7 (permalink)
Mikey Seasoned YaHookan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: gulf islands bc Posts: 7,443 Thanks: 1,144 Thanked 2,246 Times in 1,475 Posts	what i dont get is he says all troops will be out of iraq by 2011 buuut the american embassy in Iraq will have 9,000 private military contractors wtf doesnt sound like all american troops will be out afterall __________________ RIP Gov

10-23-2011, 12:41 PM	#8 (permalink)
Roach Victoria Aut Mors Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7,184 Thanks: 2,372 Thanked 1,987 Times in 1,509 Posts	Well after an investment of well over a trillion dollars and over a million troops having served in the two current wars, what did you expect. democracy ? __________________ לזיין את הקופים

10-23-2011, 01:21 PM	#9 (permalink)
Mikey Seasoned YaHookan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: gulf islands bc Posts: 7,443 Thanks: 1,144 Thanked 2,246 Times in 1,475 Posts	or at least better propaganda. __________________ RIP Gov

10-23-2011, 12:00 PM	#5 (permalink)
stoneric bougeman Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 5,646 Thanks: 704 Thanked 1,512 Times in 1,067 Posts	How about obomba is just carrying out what bush started. bush signed the agreement saying we'd be out by Dec of 2012. obobma doesn't want to leave, it's just that the Iraqis don't want to give the Americans immunity when we kill with impunity. And if we were concerned about Iranian influence we should have left their bitter enemy in power. And please don't call Iraqis our friends and allies. Destroying their country hardly makes us either.

10-23-2011, 02:57 PM	#11 (permalink)
Roach Victoria Aut Mors Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7,184 Thanks: 2,372 Thanked 1,987 Times in 1,509 Posts	or cheap. I'm with Greece where communists riot with anarchists. of coarse we pay for that too. __________________ לזיין את הקופים

10-23-2011, 05:46 PM	#14 (permalink)
DdC Decade Yahookan Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: Santa Cruz,CA,USA Posts: 2,117 Blog Entries: 5 Thanks: 51 Thanked 607 Times in 399 Posts	jfq I take it back... You're just fucking retarded! Now i have to feel sorry for ya, damnit! The Neocon's goal is to stop funding states and locals as much as possible, and keep it all in Wall St and DC. Also by sucking out as much as they can. Buy Local! First they cut the poor, then they replace our workers with foreign scab sweatshops. Soon they won't even need us as consumers. Steady building China and India's middle class to do that. It's Neocons, not republicans or democrats. They just give in to the coercion. The drug war is a product they sell. But we are the people, and we are the majority if only we the people didn't fight each other. We'd have it all! Former Financial Regulator William Black: Occupy Wall Street a Counter to White-Collar Fraud Each time a (person) stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others... he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring those ripples build a current that sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance. -- Robert F. Kennedy Freed U.S. Hikers Speak at Occupy Oakland Express Support for California Prisoners on Hunger Strike "The most difficult struggle of all is the one within ourselves. Let us not get accustomed and adjusted to these conditions. The one who adjusts ceases to discriminate between good and evil. He becomes a slave in body and soul. Whatever may happen to you, remember always: Don't adjust! Revolt against the reality!" -- Mordechai Anielewicz, Warsaw, 1943 New Yorkers Protest NYPD "Stop and Frisk" Program "Now this conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large armaments industry is new in the American experience. The total influence, economic, political, even spiritual, is felt in every city, in every statehouse, every office in the federal government. We must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes." -- President Dwight D. Eisenhower, farewell address January 17, 1961 "You're enough of a pro," Nixon tells Shafer, "to know that for you to come out with something that would run counter to what the Congress feels and what the country feels, and what we're planning to do, would make your commission just look bad as hell." Neocons or WoD? The more things change the more they remain the same... SCAPEGOATING - Blaming social problems on a cultural, racial, or behaviorial group. PREJUDICE - Selling the public on the idea that all members of the targeted group are 'bad' people. LIES - 'Facts', which cannot be verified, and pseudo-scientific studies are used as propaganda against the targeted group. History is rewritten. NO PUBLIC DEBATE - "These people have no right to have their viewpoiunt aired." and " Anyone who disagrees or questions us must be one of them!" DEHUMANIZATION - Characterizing all members of a targeted group as subhuman and typically capable of monstrous deeds and/or crimes. PROTECT OUR CHILDREN - "They corrupt, seduce and/or destroy our children." CIVIL LIBERTIES SACRIFICED - "We must give up some of our freedoms, liberties, and rights in order to combat this menace to society." LEGAL DESCRIMINATION - Laws criminalize members of targeted group and they may be denied jobs, the right to own property and/or be restricted as to where they may live or go. INFORMERS - Citizens are urged to 'turn in' friends, neighbors, co-workers and family members. SECRET POLICE - Non-uniformed police squads set up to wage war on targeted groups utilizing deception, infiltration, espionage and entrapment. CONFISCATION OF PROPERTY - Property and assets are seized from people who are members of targeted group. Property may be divided between the informer and the state. REMOVAL FROM SOCIETY - Prisons, rehabilitation camps, 'hospitals', executions and genocide. ("Kill them All" "Zero Tolerance") "There is no nonsense so arrant that it cannot be made the creed of the vast majority by adequate governmental action." -- Bertrand Russell, "An Outline of Intellectual Rubbish" Fuck the Trolls! __________________ Al Capone and Watergate were red herrings to divert the countries attention from the Fascist acts of eliminating competition. Booze/Ethanol then Ganja//Hemp.

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