Cerpin Taxt

A hypothetical scenario.

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Step Back. Evaluate. Recognize.

"All memory is really a form of regurgitation of undigested experience."
-Alan Watts

The Don

Is this really politics worthy?

Don't get me wrong I find it really interresting but to use it as a factual base for discussion about fisa and gold standard is silly.

This video is only awesome because that is exactly how I would hope for it to happen.

I wrote a whole long thing but it made me seem like a guy who was about to do something. which i am not.

But seriously how do you think he came to the conclusions he did? That would be a discussion!

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Cerpin Taxt

I only put it into politics because it's a lot of current political policy that makes this scenario even remotely possible.

I also wasn't using it as a factual basis for anything, I just thought the sensationalism would potentially be a catalyst for some discussion.

I won't tout a deep understanding of economics, but I know things aren't getting much better and things will come to a head soon enough... one way or another.

__________________
Step Back. Evaluate. Recognize.

"All memory is really a form of regurgitation of undigested experience."
-Alan Watts

The Don

Sorry man, I didn't mean to come off as arrogant.

I think the subject is very worthy of discussion, and I found the video an intriguing look into how things might go about if it happened.

I do hope to see the day though.

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Cerpin Taxt

No worries dude, can't blame your interpretation considering how vague my OP was.

That said, it's interesting you're hoping for it... what's your reasoning?

(I may or may not be hoping as well)

__________________
Step Back. Evaluate. Recognize.

"All memory is really a form of regurgitation of undigested experience."
-Alan Watts

Galt

The only disturbing part of this is that you didn't know it already.

The clip was woefully optimistic. Our markets move so fast today that when the shit hits, it will be nearly instantaneous, triggering all of the default stops and shutting the equities markets down immediately. The pressures will flash to the commodities markets, which will also trigger disaster protocols and suspend trading. Our 24/7 news cycle will flood the "doomsday has arrived" message, and within hours there will be rioting in the streets as the stores are emptied.
Consider the lunacy committed in our major cities over something as retarded as a sports team winning a game, and then contemplate the reality of those people finding out that the tit has run dry.

This is the slower motion version of what the hyper-inflation that they mentioned entails.
Inflation in the Weimar Republic - MisesWiki

One of the most critical things mentioned is that Gold is expected to hit $3,000 and then $5,000. Gold bugs would say $10,000 or worse if Bernanke would react by even THINKING of pumping out more dollars. Just a few months ago gold spot price was over $2,000 an ounce, and it has been creeping up again pretty steadily, as has silver - even more so.

Russia and China have DOUBLED their gold reserves just in the last 6 months, and they fully intend to keep adding to that. You will not hear any mention of gold and the U.S. Treasury in the same paragraph. The U.S. is now widely thought to have exactly none. There's a reason that the Fed AND Ft. Knox have not been audited. Remember, THE Feral Reserve is not OUR Federal Reserve. It is a privately owned corporate entity whose shares are all held by "Too Big to Fail" banks and Money Trusts such as The Rotchshild Group, BOA, CitiBank, et al, with the majority owned by entities that aren't even American.

Now as you choke and gag on that, consider the farce that is playing out daily in Europe. The EU is, and has been, getting propped up by the IMF and the Feral Reserve for quite some time... years in fact. The IMF is for all intents and purposes the Feral Reserve, since one props the other up with undisclosed infusions of U.S. Dollars non-stop, as it has almost from its beginnings. That is U.S. Dollars being created out of thin air and lent for free, without any hope of repayment, to every bank in Europe. The Greeks will not swallow austerity, just as the French will not. They have been told that they CAN get other people's money for nothing, and they will resist most vigorously. The EU has no real authority over any member country's sovereignty, so they can't MAKE any one of them do anything. All that they can do is the same weak shit that Bernanke keeps doing, and that is handing out more and more money that is worth less and less. If they stop at any point in time, the entire "rotten mess" that Hitler of all people alluded to, will come crashing down. Of course he was referring to communism, not the democratic socialism that now rules Europe. Same thing, just a different path to get there.

If you truly don't understand enough about economics to really grasp what all of this means, you most definitely need to learn ASAP. I would suggest the Mises Institute Wiki database as a good cheap place to learn all that you probably want, and more for free (it's where the above cited link came from).
If you're one of the unfortunate many who get's a headache every time you try to read, here's a documentary that covers the broad strokes.


Everyone should watch this numerous times. This is also why so many people now look to Ron Paul as some kind of prophet. He's been warning about this for decades.

You can also check out videos of Ron Paul's questioning of that talking turd Bernanke. The fucktard liar running the Fed has NEVER been right even once! He also doesn't recognize Gold as a currency, 'cuz that would be the undoing of their giant scam. Just look at a U.S. Dollar and what it says across the top now. It used to say U.S. Treasury, but they pulled the last of those notes out of circulation and burnt them sometime back in the 90's. Now it's all just their worthless scrip.

Here's another piece of the pie, the Bretton Woods System. Read and weep.
Bretton Woods System - MisesWiki

Our best hope is that everyone read and watch and learn this shit, and then make it a mission to share it with at least two people every day., and tell the two that you tell that they too must share it with two every day. By these means we MAY be able to educate enough sheeple to actually begin to effect change.

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"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
- Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
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"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
- Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)

The Don

Personal animosity towards the states..

It's kind of a double edged blade though. On one hand I wish for the empire to fall, and let something else take it's place. Then I think to myself it'll still be capitalism. I'll be feeling just as helpless and down when say China, India, or the Latins take over.

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Kompressor

So, what do you think is the lesser 'evil?'

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The Don

If I knew, I wouldn't feel helpless and down about it.

What I'm trying to convey is; I think that any country which grows to the size and power of America would behave in exactly the same way. Thus me hoping for America's downfall is a bit naive. In the long run, I don't think it would change anything.

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Kompressor

Well, my point is, try to think of a solution to a problem rather than focusing on the problem.

[PS. China's billion population will be a lot worse if they stop trading with the US.]

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Think like a man of action, act like a man of thought. -H. Bergson

The Don

That's such a contrived statement Kompressor. The problem is just way way to big for me to handle. I'll just sit down and write a whole ideology then. Because that's what I feel is needed. Alas! I don't have the intellectual capacity to do so. I know what I think is right, but to go from there to articulating a working system for a society is not an easy task.

Last time I tried to change things I got called in by Denmark's equivalent to FBI. So take your assumption and stuff it.

I'd rather admit that I'm done, and just watching, instead of sitting here being an armchair knight for good, pretending to partake.

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Kompressor

It is not contrived, unless making you force to think about what you feel helpless about is somehow a crime.

Not saying you should be an armchair. Change the things you can, or at least join the movements that you think are good, regardless if you agree with me.

Sitting and watching is for sports, not politics.

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Think like a man of action, act like a man of thought. -H. Bergson

Galt

Your comment touches on a rather amazing thing there Don. Have you ever stopped to consider just how it is that a country so young could completely usurp a power as old and well established as Britain? How do you think that America was able to move from a virtual stone aged wilderness to The World power in such a short time, and I would suggest that her zenith was realized almost a hundred years ago and it has been on the decline ever since, but to the question of how it got there in the first place - what do ya think?

I believe you're correct about the size and power, but the intelligence of the affecting populace would also have considerable impact. Intelligence maybe being too broad a term to fully develop in this context, so let's just say level of classical education.

__________________
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
- Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
_________________

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
- Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)

The Don

Hmm. I'm not big on american history. My gut tells me it's part religious persecution in europe which facilitated the exodus of some really bright minds. The other part would be something along the lines of capitalism. Capitalism has (if nothing else) proven that a country that adopts it (and believes in it! key!) experiences material incline.

That's where my gut gets me, now hit me with them facts.

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Galt

Wasn't trying to get that pointed, but there were obviously things that motivated people to come here, as well as reasons for their initial... successes let's call them.

There was a kind of wave of ideas that emanated forth following our emergence from the Dark Ages. The ideas that were most noteworthy for their impact on mankind were the ones that basically called attention to the concept of individual freedom. These ideas in Europe centered initially around Germany and Scandinavia and spread first East and much later West. Following the eventual demise of slavery and later serfdom the ideas experienced a period of tremendous growth and development during what we call the Renaissance and later the Age of Enlightenment. At their root, these were reflections of ideals and thinking, heretofore unknown to Europe. As these ideas began to manifest themselves in the form of education and culture, the impact of the ideas involved led to the eventual unrest which fostered the desire for people desiring more to risk life and limb to find it.

I would suggest that the people who came first to the New World were in fact a breed apart. They, or more particularly, those among them who survived, were the quickest, the smartest and the bravest, and they knew it. They were presented with a level of opportunity and raw risk/reward scenario's that we can hardly appreciate in our softly padded current state. Nothing was guaranteed except that you would likely perish if you failed, and so with those sort of stakes the adventure was begun.

One of the most interesting and significant factors in our ancestors' success and newly developing culture was a very profound respect for and desire to attain knowledge. Part of that was thrust upon them by the conditions at hand, and part was a remnant from their European pasts, where only the landed wealthy were ever afforded the opportunity to become educated.

During the Colonies fight for independence, the most oft noted commentary made by European visitors, interested in this curious thing happening in America, was that they were amazed that even the most coarse and common frontiersman was able to read the news of the day in one of the available papers. This was seen as truly astonishing, as well it should have been. Not only were we creating a New World, we were showing signs of upending everything that the Old held as concrete.

America's first bit of rebellion was its people telling the most powerful nation in the world to go fuck themselves. They would impose a tax, and the Colonies would refuse to pay it. Parliament would concoct another, and the colonists would simply adapt a new work around. England needed money, and the colonist were saying no. Finally, when they began their own boycott of English trade, and refused to do business with them, the English business owners would petition the King to back off. This emboldened the colonists, and made the King even madder. He finally sent troops, things escalated, and we all know the rest. The point being, that this all happened because of ideas and freedom.

There has never developed, not speedily or by the slow, any civilization that has prospered to the degree that the United States has. The only time that this type of growth has and can occur is when people are the freest, as they were during our Golden Age. Throughout our Industrial Revolution we excelled an exceeded at everything, so much so that EVEN with the inclusion of the impact of the Civil War, we were arguably the greatest power on earth within almost a century of our founding. That isn't just remarkable... that is absolutely extraordinary. And the reason for all of it was simply ideas, ideas and the freedom to act upon them. That is what the basis of American exceptionalism is all about. It is what we have always been about. Democratic socialist pseudo capitalism is not what it's about. No amount of science, central planning or totalitarian control has ever even scratched the surface of what unbridled capitalism managed to accomplish in those few short years.

As you pine for the fall of Superman, I would only ask that you first check your premise and determine if you have in fact ever seen anything, that you can honestly say, managed to do so much for so many in so short a period of time. Warts and all, I would contend that there is nothing that has ever, or likely will ever come anywhere close. Since you've not ever experienced the wonders OF that sort of freedom, I would only ask that you consider letting us all have another stab at it before you throw in the towel.

__________________
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
- Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
_________________

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
- Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)

The Don

So what happened? And why should America, who had such fertile ground to fasten its roots, get a second chance? America has proven they couldn't handle it. In the most extreme sense of the word. The wheels of history are turning, and in one direction only. To simply dismiss what America has done as 'warts' is kind of insulting isn't it?

But herein lies my problem, who else, given the oppourtunities and circumstances America was, would act differently? They probably wouldn'y, as history also teaches us.

Are you talking in a historical sense? If you are talking in a contemporary sense, I would argue against that.

Well the Caliphate also had a massive expansion, and generally did really well for the 1200 years or so it existed. Who did it faster I cannot speculate on.

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Terry

ITT Don is an armchair revolutionary who's too goddamned lazy to leave his armchair.

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I don't know but I've been told,
If you never die you'll never grow old

The Don

Fucking terry gets it.

Does recognizing ones fatalistic mindset make it legitemate/ok?

There is something seriously wrong with my language in my previous posts. I really need to stop posting when sober. In before I should stop altogether. You a holes.

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Galt

I believe I mentioned that the ideas moved first east, then west. The Caliphate was certainly a step in the right direction, but a religious dogma at the top would hardly meet any definition of free, no matter how benevolent... unless it was Sage.

My assumption about your personal experience was in fact meant in the historical sense.

To answer your first question, what I believe happened was that there accumulated enough who were disinterested in making their own way that they eventually convinced a vocal minority to be happy living off of the crumbs. Religion plays a big part in this, as they almost all wish to exercise some form of control over others' property. Standing not too far away would be the politicians, another group that de-evolved with the monopolists into the crony cocksuckers that assail us today. The smartest and slipperiest of the swine discovered that by controlling the currency, you could control the politicians, and if you control them, then you can make it all appear good and legal. Thus was sired the most despicable of seething syphilitic pustules, the Feral Reserve, and it's venereal cousin the IRS. That's not that hard to undo.

As for your quick draw on the delete button, WTF? Europe has been fucking dick diddlin' around for how many centuries to end up where... broke as fuck, hangin' onto the asshairs of the U.S. like so many fiscally fucked dingleberries. If the Fed stopped pumpin' spooge in to keep their scam inflated, Europe would be in flames.

As for the warts. I by no means excuse anything that we have done, or continue to do. I am completely embarrassed and dismayed by it all. Looking down the time line of American hegemony, there isn't a whole lot that we should be proud of in that regard. That actually is where we are the most brain fucked, in not recognizing that MOST of the world is very aware of that part of our legacy that most citizens here know only vaguely through the filter of our revisionist memories and shit stained text books.

Enforcing American Hegemony - A Timeline

Beyond that, it occurrs to me that you're a Canadian... so ultimately you should just shut the fuck up and sit down til we tell ya you can breath again. Be happy that we found enough gold and oil to keep ourselves busy down here, and keep your fuckin' fingers crossed that we don't get bored with that Iranian oil or the next thing you might be hearin' on the loud speakers is "Darkies to the front!" as we mass along the border.

__________________
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
- Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
_________________

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
- Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)

Galt

Pro'ly strokin' out. Not to worry, unless ya survive. What do they do with you guys up there, set ya adrift on an iceberg in a Depends parka?

__________________
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
- Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
_________________

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
- Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)