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Old 10-19-2012, 01:14 PM   #1 (permalink)
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"How long can a government with a $16 trillion foreign debt remain a world power?"

So asks the great and noble ayatollah of iran.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012...llion-in-debt/


....

you might think it was romney, talking about the dangers of our debt, or perhaps some conservative pundit?

well, you'd be wrong.

it was the theocratic dictator-leader of the radical shiite regime currently occupying tehran...

in his friday prayers, he asked a simple question - how can a country with 16 trillion in debt stay a world power?

Now its one thing to hear liberals and msnbc-ers explain how the level of debt itself doesnt neceesarily matter- it is just a number , after all, and its a number denominated in Us dollars that our central bank can print more of long before any proverbial shit would hit the fan.

but instructive nonetheless.

....Imagine this for instance, we cut our debt in half, and had 3% growth.... what would ayatollah dickface say then? "oh the americans are fixing their economy but still it will eventually collapse"

basically my idea is that the only reason the iranian people havent risen up and literally taken over is because there is still a small sliver of a narrative that says the US is on decline and if we can only outlast them then we will win.

I know thats baloney, you know its baloney, Nato and probably 88% of the world knows its baloney... but its "plausible" . as in, it could theoretically happen that our debt with destroy us, and everything we have fought for.

So, without going into politics, etc. I think thats as a foreign policy strategy, we dont appreciate how our debt and our financial house and apperance really matter- in the 50s part of the reason everyone copied america was because we were doing so much better than everyone else- we lead by example, not just in governing, but in business, and in production, etc... people copy what works.

Mohammed Ali allabar, a western educated guy from Dubai, who is the chariman of Emaar, said this : "when someone is the greatest, its for a reason, its because they are good" This is the kind of power we need to project, this is the kind of power that people respect, even if they dont like us very much.... the best practices and good governance and good corporate structures, etc...openess, transparency.

i think we have a huge opportunity to solve these foreign policy problems by focusing on our internal shit- If we cut our debt in half or more, and got the economy going again, then Iran (or more accurately the 2 people who control the rest of the persian people by terror) would see that America isnt going away, there is no hope of "outlasting" us....it would remove even the "possibility" of that happening.

What could ayatollah dickface say if our economy was growing strong and our debt was comming down and we were leading the world on all cylinders instead of just 1 or 2.... he certainly couldnt offer a hope to "wait it out"...and if the sanctions kept increasing... i could see the confluence of a better economy, better financial managment, and severe sanctions actually succeeding in making the ayatollah change his calculation...

the one missing piece of the puzzle is for us to be talking from an uncompromised and solid position of financial and military strength. So, whoever becomes president next, i hope they see the importance of how our debt load can actually effect foreign policy.

thoughts?
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:26 PM   #2 (permalink)
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look at how much of that debt we spend on our military. then look at how much money the country behind us spends on their military. that should answer the question sufficiently.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_expenditures

for anyone who still needs a clue, we spend roughly 5x as much as the next best military in the world, china.

FIVE TIMES AS MUCH MONEY

we need the military to stay a world power but we need the world power so we can justify our military

its quite a position we've put ourselves into
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Last edited by Waves; 10-19-2012 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:39 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John F. Kerry View Post
So asks the great and noble ayatollah of iran.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012...llion-in-debt/


....

you might think it was romney, talking about the dangers of our debt, or perhaps some conservative pundit?

well, you'd be wrong.

it was the theocratic dictator-leader of the radical shiite regime currently occupying tehran...

in his friday prayers, he asked a simple question - how can a country with 16 trillion in debt stay a world power?

Now its one thing to hear liberals and msnbc-ers explain how the level of debt itself doesnt neceesarily matter- it is just a number , after all, and its a number denominated in Us dollars that our central bank can print more of long before any proverbial shit would hit the fan.

but instructive nonetheless.

....Imagine this for instance, we cut our debt in half, and had 3% growth.... what would ayatollah dickface say then? "oh the americans are fixing their economy but still it will eventually collapse"

basically my idea is that the only reason the iranian people havent risen up and literally taken over is because there is still a small sliver of a narrative that says the US is on decline and if we can only outlast them then we will win.

I know thats baloney, you know its baloney, Nato and probably 88% of the world knows its baloney... but its "plausible" . as in, it could theoretically happen that our debt with destroy us, and everything we have fought for.

So, without going into politics, etc. I think thats as a foreign policy strategy, we dont appreciate how our debt and our financial house and apperance really matter- in the 50s part of the reason everyone copied america was because we were doing so much better than everyone else- we lead by example, not just in governing, but in business, and in production, etc... people copy what works.

Mohammed Ali allabar, a western educated guy from Dubai, who is the chariman of Emaar, said this : "when someone is the greatest, its for a reason, its because they are good" This is the kind of power we need to project, this is the kind of power that people respect, even if they dont like us very much.... the best practices and good governance and good corporate structures, etc...openess, transparency.

i think we have a huge opportunity to solve these foreign policy problems by focusing on our internal shit- If we cut our debt in half or more, and got the economy going again, then Iran (or more accurately the 2 people who control the rest of the persian people by terror) would see that America isnt going away, there is no hope of "outlasting" us....it would remove even the "possibility" of that happening.

What could ayatollah dickface say if our economy was growing strong and our debt was comming down and we were leading the world on all cylinders instead of just 1 or 2.... he certainly couldnt offer a hope to "wait it out"...and if the sanctions kept increasing... i could see the confluence of a better economy, better financial managment, and severe sanctions actually succeeding in making the ayatollah change his calculation...

the one missing piece of the puzzle is for us to be talking from an uncompromised and solid position of financial and military strength. So, whoever becomes president next, i hope they see the importance of how our debt load can actually effect foreign policy.

thoughts?
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:42 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
basically my idea is that the only reason the iranian people havent risen up and literally taken over is because there is still a small sliver of a narrative that says the US is on decline and if we can only outlast them then we will win.
I didnt even read your post, I just answered the question posed in the topic.

But this shit is just gold. Your xenophobia is hilarious.

That you think to assume you know anything about the iranian people is fucking silly.

All you know about iran is what the media and your government wants you to know.

These hypothetical scenarios you come up with are nothing short of ludicrous. Really.

This is how most republicans formulate their ideology though- hypothetical scenarios that have no place in reality outside their little scared paranoid heads.

The iranian people havent risen up and taken over because they would immediately be decimated off the face of the earth, you scared little silly man.

If you did know anything about iran, you would know that they are, just like the rest of the world pretty much, in an equal state of decline to the united states. they are on the verge of economic collapse, dummy.

Why are you so scared of iran?
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:45 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Why are you so scared of iran?
I can answer my own question-

Cuz the media tells you to be, especially conservative media.

And being the dumb little sheep you are, of course you just go right along with it.
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Old 10-19-2012, 02:14 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waves View Post
its quite a position we've put ourselves into
To be fair it wasn't yourselves that created that position. Europe fucked up and after WWII it was left to the US to stop Stalin. Which led to Korea. Which led to Vietnam. And so on.

So I would say it is quite a position that you find yourselves in.

Once you have hold of that global hegemony balloon it is difficult to let go.


But back to the OP- it can't remain in power as it has been asset stripped. By the Bush family and their corporate friends. And Obama has not made any significant changes.
So either the military budget has to decrease. Or the US will suffer the same fate as the USSR- economic meltdown due to military overexpenditure and state sanctioned corruption.
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Old 10-19-2012, 03:32 PM   #7 (permalink)
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There should be no sanctions on Iran and we should cut all diplomatic ties with israel until they give up their nukes and go back to the '67 borders.
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