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Old 07-09-2013, 04:02 PM   #1 (permalink)
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A Simple Reason (among many others) why Obamacare doesn't make sense, will not work, and is just plain retarded

Ok, lets start this off by saying the obvious-

I don't like Obamacare, and never have.

But lets also say this - most democrats don't like it either- they either support it because its "closer to what they want then before" (but still not what they want ie single payer), or they like it because they are a party line democrat, or they maybe like it because they stand to get health insurance that they really wanted but couldnt get before (a tiny percentage of people, specifically people with preexisting conditions, etc).

So, there are people out there like me, who dont like it at all and think its just terrible.

then there are people like what i would guess many of you are- somewhat on the fence, maybe think some good might come of it but also have grave concerns about it turning into a "train wreck" to quote democratic congressmen and senators.


So.

How the Health Insurance Mandate Penalty Will Work - The Best Life (usnews.com)

I was trying to find out what the penalty I would pay under obamacare if I wanted to just keep things the way they are now (where I dont have health insurance). according to that link up there, the penalty for an adult for one year is ....

95 dollars.


NINETY FIVE DOLLARS!

So... for you math whizzes out there thats 300 x 12 = 3600 dollars per year.

- 95=

3505 dollars that I will save simply by paying the penalty instead of doing what obama and co are trying to force me to do- which is financially against my self interest, but if they trick enough healthy young people like me to do it then it works out better for the other people who are older and less healthy and cant get insurance....

basically my 3,505 dollars would go, instead of paying my bills and maybe going to pay off student loans or some other good purpose- under obamacare, they want me to give them 3,505 more dollars, so that some shlep can get health insurance for that much cheaper... I dont have it, I wont use it most likely in the next year, and the funniest is yet to come-

Under obamacare, no one can be denied insurance....!!! so , not only do they only have a 95 dollar penalty for one adult, but if you get sick later, they CANT REFUSE YOU INSURANCE AT THAT POINT.... so essentially this is a direct incentive to NOT get health insurance, pay a small penalty, and then if i ever need it, i can get it then, and they absolutely cannot refuse me.

I just thought that was really interesting, and also really shows just what a train wreck it really is going to be-

This is probably why dems say they dont like it either but it was "the gops fault" for not allowing changes to the law to "fix it".
remember when pelosi said we needed to pass the bill to see what was in it?

Well.. I see whats in it now, and I ask any of you to explain to me where I am wrong in my reasoning of it that i just did here...

Also, I would advise any of you who are relatively young and relatively healthy and not made of money to follow my advice here and opt for the 95 dollar penalty as well.... its just absurd, its literally CONTRARY to your self interest if you are in the same general category that I am....

I don't for the life of me understand how they expect people to basically voluntarily pay another 4-5 thousand dollars a year in "obamacare tax" instead of just opting for a penalty that is much much less... talk about doomed to fail.

thoughts?
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I like your use of the word shlep.

I knew you were a Jew.
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:06 PM   #3 (permalink)
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fantastic way to elevate the discussion there geenious
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Old 07-09-2013, 05:10 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Doesn't the penalty escalate over the years?
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Old 07-09-2013, 05:20 PM   #5 (permalink)
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i dont know, i guess i need to find out, but hopefully it will never get that far, and even in a few years if it got adopted i doubt it would be 5k a year.


The other thing is the employers thing.

Doesnt it seem like a Bad idea when employment in our country and around the world is so suffering, to give businesses that maybe want to hire people a new reason to be afraid to commit and a new incentive to reduce peoples hours from full time to part time so they dont get screwed by new provisions of obamacare-

its literally THE EXACT OPPOSITE of what the government should be doing, in a multitude of ways. its like they are taking a healthy person OFF oxygen
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Old 07-09-2013, 05:46 PM   #6 (permalink)
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My thoughts:


I hear plenty of anti-obamacare statements, but dont really hear any alternatives from those that condemn it. Especially not an alternative that adequately takes care of those who would normally not be able to acquire affordable healthcare. (You cant just ignore the problem of people going without access to healthcare and medicine... Or you can but then you must admit that you are a selfish scumbag )

That said, i think "obamacare" is a complete inefficient sham, But i think in terms more along the lines of "needs much improvement" as opposed to the right's call for an end to it.



ill end this post with some thoughts on the healthcare situation in general, which can be applied to the welfare situation or w/e as well.
Our society has created the groups of people that are in need of such programs as for without them they go without those basic necessities.
While these groups and the policies concerning them may have a negative impact on the economy or w/e, Targeting them as the problem is not only heartless but incredibly ignorant as the problem will still exist.

/stating the obvious. dont get how people think cutting such programs is a viable option...
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Old 07-09-2013, 05:48 PM   #7 (permalink)
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lol shlep
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Old 07-09-2013, 05:49 PM   #8 (permalink)
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lol shlep
i came here to say the same thing
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:32 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fenderbender View Post
My thoughts:


I hear plenty of anti-obamacare statements, but dont really hear any alternatives from those that condemn it. Especially not an alternative that adequately takes care of those who would normally not be able to acquire affordable healthcare. (You cant just ignore the problem of people going without access to healthcare and medicine... Or you can but then you must admit that you are a selfish scumbag )

That said, i think "obamacare" is a complete inefficient sham, But i think in terms more along the lines of "needs much improvement" as opposed to the right's call for an end to it.



ill end this post with some thoughts on the healthcare situation in general, which can be applied to the welfare situation or w/e as well.
Our society has created the groups of people that are in need of such programs as for without them they go without those basic necessities.
While these groups and the policies concerning them may have a negative impact on the economy or w/e, Targeting them as the problem is not only heartless but incredibly ignorant as the problem will still exist.

/stating the obvious. dont get how people think cutting such programs is a viable option...
wow , nice comment man, im glad to hear you have such a well thought out opinion on the subject.... makes me have a little hope for humanity after all
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:32 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John F. Kerry View Post
Ok, lets start this off by saying the obvious-

I don't like Obamacare, and never have.

But lets also say this - most democrats don't like it either- they either support it because its "closer to what they want then before" (but still not what they want ie single payer), or they like it because they are a party line democrat, or they maybe like it because they stand to get health insurance that they really wanted but couldnt get before (a tiny percentage of people, specifically people with preexisting conditions, etc).

So, there are people out there like me, who dont like it at all and think its just terrible.

then there are people like what i would guess many of you are- somewhat on the fence, maybe think some good might come of it but also have grave concerns about it turning into a "train wreck" to quote democratic congressmen and senators.


So.

How the Health Insurance Mandate Penalty Will Work - The Best Life (usnews.com)

I was trying to find out what the penalty I would pay under obamacare if I wanted to just keep things the way they are now (where I dont have health insurance). according to that link up there, the penalty for an adult for one year is ....

95 dollars.


NINETY FIVE DOLLARS!

So... for you math whizzes out there thats 300 x 12 = 3600 dollars per year.

- 95=

3505 dollars that I will save simply by paying the penalty instead of doing what obama and co are trying to force me to do- which is financially against my self interest, but if they trick enough healthy young people like me to do it then it works out better for the other people who are older and less healthy and cant get insurance....

basically my 3,505 dollars would go, instead of paying my bills and maybe going to pay off student loans or some other good purpose- under obamacare, they want me to give them 3,505 more dollars, so that some shlep can get health insurance for that much cheaper... I dont have it, I wont use it most likely in the next year, and the funniest is yet to come-

Under obamacare, no one can be denied insurance....!!! so , not only do they only have a 95 dollar penalty for one adult, but if you get sick later, they CANT REFUSE YOU INSURANCE AT THAT POINT.... so essentially this is a direct incentive to NOT get health insurance, pay a small penalty, and then if i ever need it, i can get it then, and they absolutely cannot refuse me.

I just thought that was really interesting, and also really shows just what a train wreck it really is going to be-

This is probably why dems say they dont like it either but it was "the gops fault" for not allowing changes to the law to "fix it".
remember when pelosi said we needed to pass the bill to see what was in it?

Well.. I see whats in it now, and I ask any of you to explain to me where I am wrong in my reasoning of it that i just did here...

Also, I would advise any of you who are relatively young and relatively healthy and not made of money to follow my advice here and opt for the 95 dollar penalty as well.... its just absurd, its literally CONTRARY to your self interest if you are in the same general category that I am....

I don't for the life of me understand how they expect people to basically voluntarily pay another 4-5 thousand dollars a year in "obamacare tax" instead of just opting for a penalty that is much much less... talk about doomed to fail.

thoughts?
Your edit made this lose sense. 300X12 for what?
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Old 07-10-2013, 05:07 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Your edit made this lose sense. 300X12 for what?

He thinks he'll be paying $300 a month for health insurance, maybe if chooses to never use it...





'Obamacare' (stupid name for what was a good project) would have worked well with the public option intact but the health insurance lobby paid off the right republicans to make sure that never happened. Now we'll subsidize the poor so that private corporation can get the money they were promised one way or another.

So tell me again how we're the greatest country on the planet when the need to maintain the health of our corporations far eclipses the need to maintain the health of our people...
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Old 07-10-2013, 07:42 PM   #12 (permalink)
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i just edited to emphasize the most important points, i kept shlep in there because i could tell how much everyone loved it . 300 is just a ballpark figure for insurance. i guess when the crux of the argument is about numbers and then i just pull numbers out of my ass that sort of weakens my argument, but this is really about the broader point- the penalty is not high enough to be effective... that doesnt mean i support a higher penalty, but i recognize that our medical system in america cant run on "hope" any more than our economy empirically can't and hasnt for the past 5 years. self interest is not only the fairest and more moral basis for a social contract, but it is also the only true way that could conceivably work.
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:49 PM   #13 (permalink)
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j answer this honestly and think about it a sec- if you were one of the people who currently did not have health insurance and would be gaining coverage under obamas plan, would that change your opinion at all?
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:29 PM   #14 (permalink)
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^and needed that health insurance too.



if you say no you are full of shit or a sociopath and incapable of such empathic thinking. Either way you would not call for an end to it.

Ditch the term obamacare, look to IMPROVE the system so it is more efficient. There are other reasons to hate obama, like the fact that he is a war criminal and corporate bitch.
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:28 PM   #15 (permalink)
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From your link:

"In 2014, the annual penalty will be $95 per adult and $47.50 per child, up to a family maximum of $285 or 1 percent of family income, whichever is greater.

In 2015, the penalty will be $325 per adult and $162.50 per child, up to a family maximum of $975 or 2 percent of family income, whichever is greater.

In 2016, the penalty will be $695 per adult and $347.50 per child, up to a family maximum of $2,085 or 2.5 percent of family income, whichever is greater."

So, the penalty is $95 for the first year only or 1% of your family income, WHICHEVER IS GREATER.
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Old 07-11-2013, 04:21 AM   #16 (permalink)
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you know what, forget I was even here. 4 years later and this SCHMO still makes my blood boil.
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:06 PM   #17 (permalink)
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j answer this honestly and think about it a sec- if you were one of the people who currently did not have health insurance and would be gaining coverage under obamas plan, would that change your opinion at all?
He said he didn't have any and didn't need it because he's young and healthy. I hope a tree don't fall on him because then he'll have to use Medicaid or some evil shit like that.
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:34 PM   #18 (permalink)
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would i like to have it? yes. i would.

i wish i had a job where the employer offered really good health care for employees.

who doesnt?

do i think that in the absence of this, that it is other taxpayers job to pay for your health care- ? maybe.

do i think that the government needs to create a new federal bureaucracy to do it? No.
not at all. I think this will only inflate the cost of care, make it less efficient than even now, if such a thing was possible, and ultimately will cause less and less cutting edge developments to come about...among many other negative aspects of it.

The same arguments could have come about the start of freddie mac and fannie mae- "come on J, dont you think people should be able to live in homes they own? its not fair that banks dont loan to poorer people, we have to help them"... "ok , i would respond, but i have numerous serious concerns, like the potential for this to cause a HOUSING BUBBLE and ensuing ECONOMIC COLLAPSE"...
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:35 PM   #19 (permalink)
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except that basic healthcare and owning your own property are completely different.


You do realize that the right uses this argument to take away peoples access to food and medicine right?
Maybe a little extra so they can be able to afford to rent The Most Basic of a home so they can have a bed to sleep in..

It is a little different than banks taking advantage of the poor by giving them options they knew they couldnt sustainably afford...




Jwonder i know that you understand that the real problem causing such economic drain, the problem that if diminished would completely negate having to discuss the economic impact at providing healthcare for the poor, is the War machine...... so How can you still take up this argument?
Do you understand that the economic problem would still exist even if we completely stopped caring for those in need?

Do you just call yourself a realist and accept the true problem and decide to work on ones you see as more easily overcome? Even if it is at the expense of our children/sick/poor?
A true realist would recognize the actual problem, look past the deceit and see the true nature of the situation, and then work on attacking that problem.
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:38 PM   #20 (permalink)
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you did a fine job of dodging the question.

if you were a poor person who would be gaining coverage under this plan, would you be in favor of "obamacare?"

very simple question.

Quote:
not at all. I think this will only inflate the cost of care, make it less efficient than even now, if such a thing was possible, and ultimately will cause less and less cutting edge developments to come about...among many other negative aspects of it.
Funny how every other modern society on earth has socialized healthcare and they seem to absolutely love it.
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