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Old 08-15-2013, 07:14 PM   #21 (permalink)
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i like stonerics distillation: take the profit motive away. not only that but take the corruption away. the profit motive is what leads to the corruption in my view. watch revs post to get more in-depth. banks are fucking you and the american people right now. educate yourself for fucks sake.

i dont get how you dont understand what it would mean to socialize banks. take the power away from private corruption and let the government handle it with extremely strict oversight. like transparency. of course this will never happen, its the equivalent of asking the mob to let the police handle all their dirty work.

we live in an age where the government demands transparency from its citizens (snowden) and will do anything including straight up illegal shit to this end, and the populace just sits back and demands jack shit in terms of transparency from the government. its pretty pathetic. socialized banks would be a great improvement upon our current system given enough oversight, but theres so much corruption in place now that expecting anything like this is a pipe dream.

look at, say, a country like switzerland. because its been part of their culture to have extreme oversight in their banking system, they ended up with one of the best banking systems in the modern world. its the complete opposite of what americas got going.

if not socialize, we at the very least need a complete overhaul of how our banking system works because right now its allowing old white dudes to fuck the american people out of alot of money.
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Last edited by Waves; 08-15-2013 at 07:26 PM.
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Old 08-19-2013, 02:04 PM   #22 (permalink)
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A country so dumb that when the rich 1% came on TV and said "If we socialize healthcare, then if you (meaning the rich guy) need a new heart or a lung but you're not on the top of the waiting list, sorry!" Not mentioning that they mean that they'd be upset that they couldn't buy their way to position #1. And the citizen sheep took it to mean that nobody could get anything done, ever. Not to mention that a good portion heard the word 'socialized' and thought to themselves "I knew those damn Russians/Chinese were taking over. Hell naw!"
You've got it backwards. Most people support socialized health care and think it will work.

The reality of the situation is that the way things work in our economy today, it will be a nightmare. Waves has a good point overall. We have a tug and war going on between government control of private industries.

In a homogenous society, socialized health care works as good as the people who run it...
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Old 08-19-2013, 04:37 PM   #23 (permalink)
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its like the media and the government have sold the american people on a bullshit myth. that myth is that free market will always be the best system. nobody dare question the myth, for the myth is how we have always lived and how we shall always live. we fund the myth with our very tax dollars. we tell the banks and the auto industries and all these other industries "this myth is what we believe in- here, we believe in it so much that we're going to change the rules of the game so that the bullshit myth can keep going." there is no greater system than the myth, why should we even try to think up one? its a waste of fucking energy to question the myth and to try to improve upon it, dont you know. fuck that. theres got to be some smart ass fucking people somewhere who have crunched the numbers and can at least get us started going in the right direction. lets shake shit up a bit and take some risks. thats how progress works in the real world, you take smart educated risks.

we wont do that because the old white dudes control who takes the risks. some people have woken up to this. others are still under the spell of the myth.
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Old 08-19-2013, 04:59 PM   #24 (permalink)
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The myth is that we have a free market at all. In a truly free market, banks would have to be solvent. The reason that they cause the trouble they do is that the law allows them to create $10 in credit for every $1 on reserve, the law forces taxpayers to cover this system through the FDIC, the law established the Fed, and the law makes bank credit legal tender.

The free market utopia that conservatives get wet over might actually work. The socialist utopia that liberals get wet over might actually work, too. But we'll never know because the only government we can create to enforce either of these visions will be run by corruptible people, who will eventually fuck it all up. If the experiment in constitutional democracy that is the USA has taught us anything, it's that even with all the checks and balances you can work into the system, you will never keep the greedy assholes and power mongers at bay forever.



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Old 08-19-2013, 05:02 PM   #25 (permalink)
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thats exactly right, haha. the myth is that the fucking economy is real.

so whats the next step? is there a better system that actually holds people accountable and doesnt create such wealth disparity and corruption? do we stay slaves until the system collapses on itself?
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:49 PM   #26 (permalink)
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i think a pretty good next step, keeping in mind the point Rev just finished with, is to strictly monitor politician's funds and prohibit them from receiving any money other than the salary for their position.

well before that i think we should completely wipe the slate clean, get rid of ALL current politicians and re-vote new ones in. Current politicians are already far to corrupt / have succumb to the dark side.



We need to get money out of government.
We need to limit 'politicians' finances as to (attempt to) only attract the truly altruistic to such positions.




Seems simple enough. Dont see why anyone would object to it. why arent we doing this?
then we can socialize banks. Money out of government first.
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:59 PM   #27 (permalink)
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^i would rather have the government in charge of the desert than some privatized industry full of corruption.
You don't think govt is full of corruption?

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how could the government possibly do a worse job than the banks and other industries are already doing?
Our central banking system is a pretty socialist (Keynesian) entity. Also, the biggest banking failures were Fannie Mae// Freddie Mac, which are quasi-govt institutions.


I don't think private banks would be free from financial crisis, but I feel the recoveries//market adjustments would be much less drawn out than they are with a centrally planned economy.
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:00 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Privatized , 1% would be in control of 99% of the sand.
You don't view the "political elite" as the 1% in a government system?
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:06 PM   #29 (permalink)
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You guys realize that our banking system is probably the least "free-market" industry in our economy (world economy too, while I'm at it)?
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:00 PM   #30 (permalink)
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You don't view the "political elite" as the 1% in a government system?
Sure. So what does that have to do with what I said? I wasn't taking sides.
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:23 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Our central banking system is a pretty socialist (Keynesian) entity.
Socialist is a peculiarly one sided description of Keynes.
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:30 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Why do we allow private interests to rule in this specific area of such importance?

Not like it matters much, the govt is just as crooked as corporate banks. at least we can somewhat hold the govt accountable.
In my local, I thought it would be good if the Post Office ran a centralised bank. Banks already operate under government license, and central bank control of interest rates etc. so why not dispense with the charade and the bonus profiteers??
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Old 08-21-2013, 10:16 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Luck plays a big role in who gets wealthy and who doesn't. We like to believe otherwise, because it makes the rich feel like they're somebody, and the poor feel like they have the power to become somebody, but take a look at anyone who's gotten rich, and you'll see all kinds of elements that came into play in their wealth-gathering that were totally outside their control. Or, if you prefer, look at the dipshits on the Real Housewives and ask yourself, "What's so special about them that they got rich and I didn't?"



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Your last example is why you think it's all luck. While I agree, especially in this day in age that most rich people are lucky and know how to fuck the system (while producing nothing of value), the rich entrepreneurs of the past had an element of thinking that was unique. There was a book written about this by someone who studied them.
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Old 08-21-2013, 03:05 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Don't believe everything you read just because the author has some sort of credentials. Question everything, especially statements like "rich entrepreneurs of the past had an element of thinking that was unique" when no qualifying evidence is offered.
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Old 08-21-2013, 03:25 PM   #35 (permalink)
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But...but that's SoK's style!
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