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Old 04-15-2015, 11:29 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Minimum Wage

Should it be raised? Should it exist? If we raise it how much, or should it be raised with certain criteria?

Here in Oregon the Democrats control every bit of local government so it will be raised here, the only question is how much it will go up. I work with a lot of people who say it shouldn't be raised and they argue with what, in my mind, are fallacies because most are easily disproven. However I will wait to hear from you guys before rendering my final verdict.

Minimum wage. Should it be raised/lowered/abolished? And why?
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Old 04-15-2015, 11:47 PM   #2 (permalink)
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.. should be the price of one large dominoes pizza including delivery and tip.

No arguments. Obey Dominoes.
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Old 04-16-2015, 12:24 AM   #3 (permalink)
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minimum wage should be set such that a person earning min wage and working 40 hours a week can afford to provide the necessities for themselves and 2 children. Anything less is uncivilized.
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Old 04-16-2015, 01:43 AM   #4 (permalink)
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^thats insane though. That would be McDonald's niggas getting like 25/hr.

Private business shouldn't be responsible for people's poor decisions. Neither should the government/population though. It sickens me that people continue to breed while being unable to provide.

>b-but muh human rights

There should be some kind of balancing legislation though to make up for how certain companies rely of welfare to compensate their full time employees.

Escaping poverty isn't that hard. What is amazing is how many people don't want to actually work, how many people are completely financially irresponsible.
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Old 04-16-2015, 02:50 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I think it should be raised. The American worker is more productive than ever, but the minimum wage has not kept up. The elite 1% is richer than ever, off the backs of the workers.

More money in the pockets of workers, leads to more spending and more tax revenue, which is better for the economy.

And there is no such thing as an unskilled worker.
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Old 04-16-2015, 03:27 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Old 04-16-2015, 04:58 AM   #7 (permalink)
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A guaranteed minimum income would do just as much (if not more) than a minimum wage. in either case, the whole 'a fast food/ wal mart worker doesn't deserve it...' argument doesn't sit well with me as it ignores a fundamental question: why is wage labor a dominant and necessary social convention anyway? It needn't be.
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Old 04-16-2015, 07:31 AM   #8 (permalink)
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There should be some kind of balancing legislation though to make up for how certain companies rely of welfare to compensate their full time employees.

Escaping poverty isn't that hard. What is amazing is how many people don't want to actually work, how many people are completely financially irresponsible.

I agree. Working full time should earn enough to live with out being on welfare. If you want to raise a family get a good job.
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Old 04-16-2015, 07:48 AM   #9 (permalink)
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You guys realize there are people with university degrees that can't get jobs in their fields some of them having to work minimum wage?

Has nothing to do with poor decisions.
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Old 04-16-2015, 07:54 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Not to mention.. I've been looking for a place forever now to rent.. All I can find are hit holes that are at least 1500 to 1600 a month and that doesn't include utilities.. And that is for an apartment.. An apartment in a house that is split.. Therefore I'd be fucked because I have too many kids and having too many kids I get discriminated against which sucks balls.

Lets remember.. I was married.. I didn't choose to have four kids in my own and try to raise them as a poor single mother with a deadbeat ex husband who doesn't support them and I am trying to do better by progressing in my life by getting better jobs and would be able to live ok.. But the price of livening is retarded.. Food is expensive..

Even bologna is 6 bucks a pack!

The poor person can't even afford the poor food.. I have to buy no name bologna.
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Old 04-16-2015, 08:06 AM   #11 (permalink)
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lol @ only the wealthy should be able to have children.

it's okay guys you can just say you are down for eugenics...
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Old 04-16-2015, 09:15 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I have one employee. I pay him $15 an hour. Not because I think he is entitled to it, but because he is knowledgeable in mechanics, Quick, friendly to my customers... etc. He DESERVES to make more because his skills are worth more.

A burger flipper should not be making as much as him, as it takes little to no skill to flip a burger. Fast food jobs are also meant to be stepping stones, not careers. I learned in school and from my parents that if I do not go to school, get good grades and do something to better my life, I would end up working in fast food and would not be able to make ends meet. So I heeded their advice. Those who didn't should not be coddled.

When I worked in the gun store, I made $1 more than minimum wage. I never thought the position I was in was worth more than that. It never bothered me that I was only making $9 an hour. How much skill is really involved in selling an item and filling out paperwork? I guess I have to know how to read and write. lol

So... I guess it depends on the position and the skills required to fill it. But, that's how most people decide how to base their wages anyways right?

IDK, maybe minimum wage should be raised a bit, but I think $15 is more than a lot of these people who are crying about it deserve.
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Old 04-16-2015, 09:58 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
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You guys realize there are people with university degrees that can't get jobs in their fields some of them having to work minimum wage?

Has nothing to do with poor decisions.
Amen. I am one of those people. (Musician; got 2 degrees from 2 of the world's top music schools in the league of Juilliard; I fall into the category of "A musician is someone who hauls $5000 worth of equipment 500 miles for a $50 gig" if you've seen that meme on FB)

I made all the right decisions but am still fucked over by this thing called harsh reality.

Anyone who thinks that all people in poverty are there b/c they're just too lazy to work hard has been brainwashed by the likes of FOX News and Rush Limbaugh.
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Old 04-16-2015, 10:53 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Amen. I am one of those people. (Musician; got 2 degrees from 2 of the world's top music schools in the league of Juilliard; I fall into the category of "A musician is someone who hauls $5000 worth of equipment 500 miles for a $50 gig" if you've seen that meme on FB)

I made all the right decisions but am still fucked over by this thing called harsh reality.

Anyone who thinks that all people in poverty are there b/c they're just too lazy to work hard has been brainwashed by the likes of FOX News and Rush Limbaugh.
Not really. Your services aren't needed. Instead of majoring in something 'boring' but useful to the current economic demand, you majored in 'what you love to do'.

A minimum wage these days isn't as bad as all the liability and insurance required of every employer, thus contributing to unemployment or unreporting of income.

If we eliminated most employee insurance benefits, made health care universal single payer, and reduced employer liability to a reasonable level based on field, then minimum wage would be taken care of by the 'free market' that we pretend to live by.

That's all a fantasy world anyways. Capitalism is just as much of an illusion as socialism. I'd much rather see an honest form of the latter.
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Old 04-16-2015, 01:30 PM   #15 (permalink)
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You guys realize there are people with university degrees that can't get jobs in their fields some of them having to work minimum wage?

Has nothing to do with poor decisions.
That's absolutely a poor decision. It's not a min wage companies problem if one of their employees overpaid for a degree in a saturated or low paying field.

This seems to be an incredibly popular point in this discussion wherever I see it pop up. People need to think before they spend 200,000 on a career that starts and maintains 40,000 salary.
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Old 04-16-2015, 02:35 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I think it should be raised. The American worker is more productive than ever, but the minimum wage has not kept up. The elite 1% is richer than ever, off the backs of the workers.

More money in the pockets of workers, leads to more spending and more tax revenue, which is better for the economy.

And there is no such thing as an unskilled worker.
This. It won't happen for a long time, but the only real answer is a manatory minimum income inline with the cost of living. Yes it's socialim. Yes it means those lazy minorities will get paid to not work. Yes it's hard to swallow, but the world is going to get more an more industrialized, leading to less and less low skill jobs. Denmark already has mandatory minimum income and it's working out great for them. It means that people can strive to attain education and get really meaningful and productive employment without worrying about working 80 hours a week just to afford a home and food.

If it means we end up paying some lazy people to do nothing, so be it. Most welfare in this country goes to corporate interests, by a huge margin. If we cut that and other bullshit, and let robots do most of the production, we can at least afford to provide for our people.
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Old 04-16-2015, 03:18 PM   #17 (permalink)
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And there is no such thing as an unskilled worker.
Amen.
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Old 04-16-2015, 05:07 PM   #18 (permalink)
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That's absolutely a poor decision. It's not a min wage companies problem if one of their employees overpaid for a degree in a saturated or low paying field.

This seems to be an incredibly popular point in this discussion wherever I see it pop up. People need to think before they spend 200,000 on a career that starts and maintains 40,000 salary.
I'm saying too many people not enough jobs..
Hello?
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Old 04-16-2015, 05:09 PM   #19 (permalink)
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The difficulty here, from my perspective as a guy who helped start and build (and ultimately watch fall into ruin) a small business is that those who employ only a few people often cannot afford to pay more than minimum wage. That's all we paid our guys. So if you raise the minimum wage to something reasonable to live on, you're going to make it a lot harder to start and build your own company.

The other side of it is, the minimum wage is not enough for people who aren't living with their parents. Two or three people making minimum wage might be able to live together in a place like mine, in the ghetto. One person, with or without kids, could not.

Now, I'm not about to feel bad for a second for corporations like Wal*Mart who already benefit more from the law than any civilian like myself. Corporate welfare is a far more lucrative business than any neo-con can say it is for the "lazy and likely non-white people living on easy street in the hood." Personally, I think solving the problem is a lot more about taking benefits away from the rich and powerful than it is about giving them to the poor. We can produce far more real wealth with less effort today than in decades past, however we are not all benefiting from this. The owners are, but the workers are not.

Once again, I think history is coming to a head on issues of wealth inequality (pun intended).





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Old 04-16-2015, 06:45 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Well said, my friend.
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