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Old 10-20-2015, 01:56 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Let's talk about Iran and nuclear proliferation

Before I say anything, it would be cool if people that have already spent time learning about this topic to just kind of discuss their interpretation and opinion of the situation in a general sense.


Do you think Iran should have nuclear capabilities?


What are the implications?
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Old 10-20-2015, 04:09 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I'm FAR more worried about israel having nuclear weapons than Iran.

Iran is not stupid enough to actually use a nuke. It would simply serve as a deterrent.
I fully believe israel would use a nuclear bomb.

Yes i believe iran should be able to have nuclear capabilities, including weapons.

However at the same time i wish no country had nukes at this point... However until that glibal initiative takes place, iran should have the same rights other "super powers" do.
Who the fuck are we to say otherwise?

Any one saying otherwise is straight up just buying into fearmongering BS imo.
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Old 10-20-2015, 04:24 PM   #3 (permalink)
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i dont think any country should have them
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Old 10-20-2015, 04:27 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Well Israel has had nukes for a while now and hasn't used any.


Why do you think Iran would not use a nuclear weapon, or not have the potential to distribute nuclear weaponry to other parties that would?



But to your last point (not your last sentence) ... it seems totally counter intuitive to allow more countries to develop nuclear weaponry when the ultimate goal is disarmament.
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Old 10-20-2015, 06:56 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I think he may have been focusing more on the hubris and hypocrisy of how we operate. Who the fuck are we to tell any sovereign nation what the fuck they can and can't do. I've got a life sized picture of Iran telling us that WE shouldn't be allowed to have nukes. After all, on the score of who has used them and who has killed more innocent people in the name of spreading their cause, I believe we take the cake. Aside from that, if WWII taught us nothing, it's that trade sanctions ARE an act of war, so why do we keep poking everybody with sticks? And last but not least, why the fuck are we in the Middle East in the first place? Just being rhetorical there, but you get my drift. If we're not there, then we have nothing to worry about as far as them coming here to start shit.

As for Israel, fuck 'em. They sign treaties with no one, including us, and what they practice, at least as far as the indigenous and West Bank folks are concerned (the ones that haven't been chased out or exterminated yet), is anything but democracy, so how and why are they such "good friends"? Hell, we don't need the oil. It's all of these treaty entanglements and bullshit trade agreements that fuck our working class and keep us at war. If I'm Iran I couldn't have enough nukes... just for protection from us and Israel.
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Old 10-20-2015, 07:02 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Oh yeah, and not let us forget who's runnin' Israel... Benny Nuttier-than-a-cuckoo. The fucking guy makes McCain look like a hippie.
I have a lot of Persian friends and they don't act the least bit crazy. Listen to Alan Derschowitz defend everything that Israel does some time and you'll come to understand why Iran NEEDS nukes.
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Old 10-20-2015, 07:04 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Simple hyperbole to make a point. I totally agree that no one should have them, and politicians and religious cunt-holes that talk to God are the last mother fuckers that should ever be allowed near them.
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Old 10-20-2015, 07:33 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I have a lot of Persian friends and they don't act the least bit crazy.

Is your implication that Israelis are all crazy?

Because I have both persian and israeli friends (more israeli friends honestly but that's inconsequential) and I have been told by all of them that there are multiple viewpoints within these respective countries, and the situation is just like it is here in north america, where a large percentage of the population disagrees with the actions taken by their governments.
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Old 10-20-2015, 07:36 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Who the fuck are we to tell any sovereign nation what the fuck they can and can't do.
'We' are the team that got nukes first.

I mean would you let your competitors equip themselves with the same level of technology as you do?

Why would you do that?

To play fair? Or something? That doesn't make sense.
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Old 10-20-2015, 11:10 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Bourdain did an awesome ep on Iran. Made me wanna visit.
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Old 10-21-2015, 03:51 AM   #11 (permalink)
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i can buy dates from iran here and i don't even like dates but these ones taste like amazing candy
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Old 10-21-2015, 06:42 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Lots of Jewish friends, family members, with a few Sabras in the bunch, and yes I realize that you can't paint an entire people with so broad a brush. I'm just naturally defensive on behalf of the underdog, and those that don't have the likes of AIPAC and half the American judiciary, as well as a disproportionate chunk of our legislature representing their cause however. I think that all of our troubles, and most of the peoples' that live there, begin with us and our EU partners fucking about where we don't belong. Remove the cause of the inflammation and the wound may heal, but continuing to put pressure on it and constantly picking the scab leads to an obvious end. So now we have nukes to contend with, and yet we still resort to nothing but bribes or bombs bullying. WTF is wrong with simply minding our own fucking business? It's what pretty much all people want universally, just to left the fuck alone in their pursuit of happiness, or as is more often the case over there, simple daily survival.

My other base objection is that I don't honestly believe that Israel should have ever been formed in the first place, especially in the way that it was. There's a core issue of property rights and compensation at the least that was completely ignored, and the suggestion that the precursors to Israel were all a bunch of stone aged goat herders, wandering about the region with no cultural concept of property rights is more than a little dismissive.
The excuses proferred just don't work. As for Hitler's attempted genocide, I find it more than a little off-putting that Israel now emulates much of what they are sworn to abhor, but of course now they have the power so it's all different I suppose.

I have a book of folk tales that I have handed down to my off-spring that claims Key West, Florida as our spiritual and ancestral homeland, so if you're not one of us... get the fuck out, or else! Why is that kind of irrational bullshit simply accepted as a given where Israel is concerned. While we're at it, if the proliferation of nukes is bad (and I DO believe that it is), than why didn't we stop our "good friends" and "closest allies" in the region from getting them and instigating a whole new arms race? That outcome was childishly obvious, and yet we helped fund it. These are the recipients of more foreign aid from us than all of the rest of the world combined, so it's not like we didn't have even better leverage over them than we do with Iran. It's all one long string of bullshit and canards.

I have no particular animus toward Israel, but I do consider Benny to be a fucking toad, and the fact is he's calling the shots. As for "competitors" gaining equal footing, I'm sorry but in what universe is Iran a competitor on any level? Proliferation of crazy fuck extremists? I offer our Born Again Christian community as exhibit 'A'.

As for who has nukes, who's more apt to use them, or who's likely to dispense them to other "competing" interests... get real! Let's see, I wanna buy a nuke, so just who other than Iran might supply me with what I want? Maybe some disaffected gangster in the former USSR? How about one of our good buddies over there in North Korea? And of course we can always count on the Paki's to have our back right?

In the end I don't believe that any one country, even North Korea, is willing to pull that trigger, mainly 'cuz they aren't dumb enough to think that the rest of the world would put out their lights with great haste. As for some extremist element, supposedly funded by another gov't, well we still have a relationship with the Saudi's for some bizzarre reason, so WTF? Where Iran is concerned I'm also less than inclined to believe that they are any more a "terror funding threat" than any other theocracy in the region, which again goes back to the primary irritant - us being all over their shit in the first place.

You wanna fix OUR problems with fundamentalist "terror" from the Middle East? How about we start with the really stupid simple shit that they've been complaining about all along; stop funding Israel, and get the fuck out! We do that and the only way anyone from Iran, Iraq, Quatar, or wherever has a reason to be pissed is if you believe the crazy kind of bullshit that 'W' and his Crazy for Christ fucks preach... that "they hate us for our freedoms"???!
Sorry but that's just fucking nuts.

Getting back to Israel, and their neighbors wanting to "drive them into the sea". That is a problem for the Israeli's to solve, not us. The Zionists managed to use their money and influence to get a bunch of countries from OUTSIDE the region to sort'a give them permission to steal other people's property. How wonderfully gratuitous. It would be like me telling you that it's totally cool with me if you claim New Jersey as your new country, and ya don't have to pay a thing. Ridiculous of course, but not really any different. The difference is the Israeli's have a great P.R. and influence program, but that doesn't make any of it right or just. Yes the Holocaust was horrific, but the world did finally mobilize to right that wrong, so where do they get off using that as some sort of bullshit excuse to do the same thing to someone else? They never had any moral high ground in any of this, and if simply being victims is all it takes, well then I'd suggest we had better watch the fuck out, 'cuz us and our European cousins have an awful lot atoning to deal with, and I don't see where we have near enough land to make it all good.

Lastly we have the wealthiest family on the planet, helping to establish this weird little "country", where they can claim citizenship and hide from any serious threat of extradition or scrutiny. Their name is on half the gov't buildings in Tel Aviv, and yet they run an empire completely beneath any radar. Whether you buy into any of the conspiracy theories or not, you have to admit that their complete absence from any and all mention in MSM - forever - is pretty damn strange. Seems to me they could have afforded to at least pay for what they've stolen.
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Old 10-21-2015, 09:39 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Bourdain did an awesome ep on Iran. Made me wanna visit.
Lol but didnt like half the people he talked to get arrested by the police shortly after for just talking about shit?

Good ep though. I really want to visit iran too. Also Afghanistan. I'm hoping things chill out there in my lifetime, as ive always felt a strong draw to the area. Specifically the mountainous regions.
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Old 10-21-2015, 09:58 AM   #14 (permalink)
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i dont think any country should have them
This is all well and good, but, a lot of countries do have them, they are not going away.

Israel would, I think use theirs, in retalation, against mainly Iran, if they (Iran) end up with them, and (shudder) use them (first).

Countries like Iran, and North Korea (and Pakistan, for that matter) with unstable rulers, are quite capable of first use of these things. They are not going away either. (the problems with religion! been killing in gODS name since they invented it!)

The world stood by while 6,000,000 jews were destroyed in WWII. The Israelis do not care what the rest of the world thinks about them, not anymore. One cant really blame them.


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Old 10-21-2015, 12:21 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Why do you think Iran would not use a nuclear weapon, or not have the potential to distribute nuclear weaponry to other parties that would?
They're not suicidal. They also haven't attacked anyone in hundreds of years so why would anyone think they'd suddenly start lobbing nukes around? I don't get the passing off their nukes to others logic either. So Iran spends billions on developing nukes only to give them to someone else? Do they scratch off the serial number and the "Made in Iran" logo? Once Hezbollah puts a warhead on a slingshot and sends it Israel's way everyone is still going to nuke Iran anyway.
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Old 10-21-2015, 01:19 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Old 10-21-2015, 01:29 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I too feel a desire to visit Iran. Seems like one of the better places to visit in the area.


Quote:
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This is all well and good, but, a lot of countries do have them, they are not going away.

Israel would, I think use theirs, in retalation, against mainly Iran, if they (Iran) end up with them, and (shudder) use them (first).

Countries like Iran, and North Korea (and Pakistan, for that matter) with unstable rulers, are quite capable of first use of these things. They are not going away either. (the problems with religion! been killing in gODS name since they invented it!)

The world stood by while 6,000,000 jews were destroyed in WWII. The Israelis do not care what the rest of the world thinks about them, not anymore. One cant really blame them.


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Since when does Iran have an unstable ruler? Do you mean mentally unstable, or an unstable regime?

And when was the last time Iran warred with someone in God's name?
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Old 10-21-2015, 03:35 PM   #18 (permalink)
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This is all well and good, but, a lot of countries do have them, they are not going away.
so much for nuclear non-proliferation i guess. better build more to protect us from those who have them
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Old 10-21-2015, 04:42 PM   #19 (permalink)
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fuck if i know

I aint scared of no nuke.
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Old 10-21-2015, 04:50 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Screw nukes, borders are too tight to smuggle something that detectable, and missiles are expensive while easily disarmed/shot down before target.


This is the era of the drone!







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