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Old 03-22-2016, 05:44 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Terror attacks in Brussels

wtf....

Brussels attack: 2 blasts at airport, 1 at subway stop - CNN.com
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Old 03-22-2016, 05:46 AM   #2 (permalink)
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this is fucking horrible....it's getting worse too
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Old 03-22-2016, 06:24 AM   #3 (permalink)
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>Religion
>of
>Peace
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Old 03-22-2016, 06:37 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Oh religion of peace who's peace is thorough and everlasting how have we failed you? Did we not culturally enrich ourselves enough? Please no kill.
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Old 03-22-2016, 06:40 AM   #5 (permalink)
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But Mohammed liked cats guys! He wasn't a child molesting warlord, that's just how the world was back then!! CATS guys he LIKED CATS!!!
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Old 03-22-2016, 07:00 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Peace through force. :/
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Old 03-22-2016, 07:04 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Scary, my daughter was in Belgium just last week
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Old 03-22-2016, 07:55 AM   #8 (permalink)
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They oughta concentrate where they know there is an ISIS stronghold and drop some small nukes on the bitches!
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Old 03-22-2016, 08:43 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I think Americans need to start coming to terms with the fact that this shit isn't coming out of a vacuum. Drone strikes alone make us the far more aggressive terrorists, leave alone the history of imperialist bullshit forced on the Middle East for the last 100 years. We got some balls calling THEM the bad guys.



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Old 03-22-2016, 08:48 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Lol I knew it wouldn't take long to blame "muh imperialism" instead of, you know, THE FUCKING ANIMALS THAT PERPETRATED THE ATTACK.

Fucking deluded cucks on this board I swear.
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Old 03-22-2016, 08:49 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I think Americans need to start coming to terms with the fact that this shit isn't coming out of a vacuum. Drone strikes alone make us the far more aggressive terrorists, leave alone the history of imperialist bullshit forced on the Middle East for the last 100 years. We got some balls calling THEM the bad guys.



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Old 03-22-2016, 08:54 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Old 03-22-2016, 08:57 AM   #13 (permalink)
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tyrannical apathy
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Old 03-22-2016, 08:58 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I study Islam academically and I think I can answer this for you. As a preface, I'm one of the people who is disgusted at the anti-Muslim rhetoric out there. I can't go on /r/worldnews anymore because it's full of idiots who know nothing about the religion and nothing about Islamic politics. I could talk all day about why they're wrong, but this is not the place.

It is wrong to say "ISIS are not Muslims" and it is extremely unhelpful to separate them from the religion. My tutor actually has spoken on national TV and written articles about this exact topic. He is a Shi'a Muslim and an academic, and he argues - quite correctly I think - that if you ignore the religious roots of the group then you cannot possible grasp the problem. Because their ideology, their beliefs and their objectives, are entirely religious. They fit within a framework that is Islamic (albeit a distinct brand of fundamental Islam) and their justifications are entirely theological.

If you disassociate them from Islam, then you have to explain their motives and actions by completely different terms. This is something you hear a lot: 'They just don't know how great Western culture is'. 'They are poor and marginalised so turn to violence.' 'They are responding to the US occupation of Iraq.' 'They are responding to European colonialism.' 'It is all about oil'. So on and so forth.


Some of those things have elements of truth - marginalisation, poverty and retribution certainly are causes as well. Yet the biggest cause, above anything else, is their religious belief. If you are an atheist like me, you can only truly understand this by imagining how you would see the world if you were a fundamentalist Muslim.

Once you do that, (and it requires a basic understanding of fundamental Islam that I don't have time to write here), then it all makes sense. It works the same for if you imagine you were a fundamental Christian - this might be easier to imagine.

If I believed that the world was going to end and I had to obey the law of the all-seeing, all-knowing, all-powerful deity in order to reach eternal paradise, I'd do whatever the hell was needed to get on his good side. If that means killing people, why wouldn't I? This world is just a temporary, physical one. It's worth it for infinity in paradise. And they are non-believers anyway, they know nothing.
If that is how you see the world and that is how you understand it, then these acts of violence make sense. The whole Islamic State makes sense.

Where it gets extremely tricky and sensitive is how non-fundamentalist Muslims fit into the picture. The same for non-fundamentalist Christians, or Jews. Because the fundamentalists would argue, and in a way I agree with them, that the beliefs of these people are so far removed from the original message and meaning of the religion that they are not truly Muslims, or Christians or Jews. In order to achieve a form of Islam, or Christianity, or Judaism that is acceptable to 'Western society', you have to reshape and twist the doctrine of that religion SO MUCH that it can start to not make sense at all.

Christianity is the perfect example. I live in Britain, which is a former Christian, now secular country. The majority of people are atheist - the Church has lost most of its power and influence. I think that this happened because the Church in this country was forced to adapt to the new ideals that came out of the Enlightenment. By doing so, over a long period of time, the doctrine of Christianity became so divorced from its scripture that it stopped making sense. As a schoolchild, I was made to go to church twice a week. The priest would tell us that Christianity preaches equality, freedom and love for everybody, including people from other faiths. But then we would go and read the Bible, and it didn't have that message at all. It told us to commit genocide on people of other faiths. It was violent, and brutal, and had so many historical problems with it that it was hard to believe. The religion didn't make logical sense any more. The result of this was a generation of people turning away from Christianity, and now you have a secular Britain.

To a much more limited extent, the same is happening to Muslims in Western countries. Many of my friends are Muslim. Yet they don't pray 5 times a day. They don't have multiple wives. They follow our legal system, not shari'a (there are a lot of misconceptions about shari'a, but that's another story). Why? Because this is how they had to adapt their religion in order for it to fit within a Western framework.
So many of them would read the Qur'an and the Hadith collections and realise how far removed they were from the fundamentals of the religion. Western Islam has to reinterpret and abstract the scripture so much in order to remodel the religion as acceptable to post-Enlightenment ideals, that it no longer makes sense to a lot of Muslims. Many turn away from religion entirely and become atheist. But many go the other way, and begin to follow the scripture fundamentally. These are the ones who, in the west, turn to groups like ISIS. are more likely to turn to extremism and violence (although this not always the case).
That is why it is unhelpful to say these terrorists are not Muslim. If you do so, you cannot discover any of what I have just said. You limit your understanding, and you actually make it easier for the discourse to become 'us vs. them', rather than peaceful and loving as it should be.

I hope that helps, I don't normally write these sorts of things on Reddit because nobody on /r/worldnews is intelligent enough to grasp concepts beyond "us and them", "Muslims r bad". I would truly suggest learning about Islam - we in the West are disgustingly under-educated. I don't know everything, but having learned the theological and political history of Islam and the Middle East, I am constantly frustrated at how little people know and how uneducated their opinions are. It has a beautiful and rich history, and there are misunderstandings and misconceptions around every corner.

TL;DR: Those who disassociate ISIS from Islam and say they are not Muslims are wrong, and this argument makes it impossible to truly understand their motives and objectives. However, the other side, which argues that all Muslims share these motives and objectives, are also wrong. The real answer lies somewhere in the middle.
Fundamental Islam IS incompatible with Western-style liberal democratic society. But so is fundamental Christianity - that is why much of Europe has turned away from the Church and towards secularism. It is not just Islam. It is all of these religions, with severely outdated doctrines and dogmas, that are incompatible.
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Old 03-22-2016, 09:56 AM   #15 (permalink)
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^So much this. The annoying thing about Islam apologists is they don't realize ISIS is FUNDAMENTALLY Islamic. This is not to say all Muslims should be like ISIS, just the opposite, but as far as groups out there that are living as they lived during the time of Mohammed, you can't get much closer than ISIS in that regard.

Another thing about the libtards is most can't name one difference between Sunni and Shia Islam (looking at you fender and Rev, no Google). So their opinions are really rather useless.
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Old 03-22-2016, 10:19 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Aside from informing me that I'm a deluded cuck and a libtard, exactly where am I wrong? If a powerful nation were killing people in your neighborhood, and waging war on your people to exploit your national resources, wouldn't you feel motivated to join up with violent organizations looking for some payback? That those organizations are Muslim is really of secondary importance. Do you really think ISIS or Al Qaeda would be the problems they are without the historical context of western conquest and imperialism?



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Old 03-22-2016, 10:25 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Aside from informing me that I'm a deluded cuck and a libtard, exactly where am I wrong? If a powerful nation were killing people in your neighborhood, and waging war on your people to exploit your national resources, wouldn't you feel motivated to join up with violent organizations looking for some payback? That those organizations are Muslim is really of secondary importance. Do you really think ISIS or Al Qaeda would be the problems they are without the historical context of western conquest and imperialism?



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Old 03-22-2016, 10:25 AM   #18 (permalink)
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you are a totally ignorant sheeple rev
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Old 03-22-2016, 11:16 AM   #19 (permalink)
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quote

I'm not convinced this guy has a good understanding of christianity, but I agree with the sentiment that fundamentalism, no matter its stripes, is more of a problem than any religion in general.

Its not hard to make an argument that 'fundamentalist' or historical interpretations of christian scripture we're miss guided and study and archaeology provide us with much clearer understandings of the original message now. A message that is totally compatible with liberal western democracies and the scientific/reason based paradigm.

(welcome) johnshelbyspong.com for example.

Making an argument that the priest told him christianity is about equality, then referencing old testament stuff (which is so incredibly obviously just historical context for the philosophies of the new testament, which would never support genocide) makes it seem like he is completely ignorant of christianity or has an anti-religious agenda. While professing to be academic about it.
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Old 03-22-2016, 11:47 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Gotta pick a team. Can't just sit on the sidelines, eat cheetos, and masturbate.

Well, you gotta pick a team, then you're free to sit on the sidelines, eat cheetos, and masturbate.


Which is what we're all doing here already. Eating cheetos on the sidelines, masturbating, talking about muslims and lib cucks and memes and stuff.
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