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Old 04-02-2016, 06:39 AM   #1 (permalink)
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NC HB2 - North Carolina is Best Carolina

http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2015E2...e/PDF/H2v1.pdf

There's a copy of the state legislation that has a lot of people bent out of shape. Also a good indicator of exactly how dishonest the media is. This is constantly referred to as anti-lgbt legislation but I see no evidence to support that.

The main point of this bill was to create even standards for businesses within the state and to prevent cities from creating contradicting laws about bathroom use and the subsequent discrimination suits that may result from this and minimum wage.

Edited to clarify the point of bill as I see it
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Last edited by Geeno; 04-02-2016 at 07:05 AM.
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Old 04-02-2016, 08:37 AM   #2 (permalink)
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The issue is North Carolina’s law sets a statewide definition of classes of people who are protected against discrimination... Sexual orientation, people who are gay, was never explicitly protected under state law and is not now.....

Which means "anti" part comes in the form of baring local governments from creating laws that protect LGBT & trans persons, by saying no laws that aren't state laws apply/can be made. And that part of the bill is what is drawing such critism and are the grounds for the law suits arriving currently.
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Old 04-02-2016, 08:44 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I agree that N. Carolina is the best Carolina but when the competition is S. Carolina is it really saying much?
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Old 04-02-2016, 08:48 AM   #4 (permalink)
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i dont see anything about gay people in the bill
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Old 04-02-2016, 08:58 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
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i dont see anything about gay people in the bill
You're correct. And in this case it's what's not in there (protected persons) that's the "anti" portion of the bill, in several sections of HB 2.
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Old 04-02-2016, 08:58 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Oh the issue is that NC doesn't otherwise include sexual orientation in its groups of protected people. I still don't see how this bill is an anti-gay bill

143-422.2. Legislative declaration.
It is the public policy of this State to protect and safeguard the right and opportunity of all persons to seek, obtain and hold employment without discrimination or abridgement on account of race, religion, color, national origin, age, sex or handicap by employers which regularly employ 15 or more employees.


edit: thats from existing laws before hb2
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Old 04-02-2016, 08:59 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Oh man.
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Old 04-02-2016, 09:09 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Okay the difference is now it says biological sex, which means if you want to flip flop you have to pay the $24 and have your birth certificate changed
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Old 04-02-2016, 09:27 AM   #9 (permalink)
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We will see how things go as the lawsuits move forward I suppose.
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Old 04-02-2016, 09:50 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Thats about it. Im not really swayed by arguments on either side of this, but I do think its hilarious to watch the country band against us.
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Old 04-02-2016, 10:07 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I think Mississippi has a bill pending that is really nasty. But coming from a state that almost spells ISIS twice, what can you expect?
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Old 04-02-2016, 12:18 PM   #12 (permalink)
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People who are intentionally left off of lists of protected people stinks of sanctioned hate.
That's why I do not support the wording of this bill, even if it is the weakest of the upspringing legislation.
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Old 04-03-2016, 02:38 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I don't think it's about hate so much as it is insulating businesses from discrimination lawsuits, since they'll now all have to be filed at a federal level.

It's also glaringly obvious how the corporations/media is approaching this for PR purposes by referring to it as a hate bill and a this or that. The reality is they need to ammend the discrimination section of state law to include Gays, if that is what people want. Despite the stereotype of the region I'd call the people of NC quite gay friendly. I'm not surprised they weren't in there considering the bulk of the legislation was written in 64.
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Old 04-03-2016, 02:52 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Okay the difference is now it says biological sex, which means if you want to flip flop you have to pay the $24 and have your birth certificate changed
North Carolina law says that in order to change your birth certificate, you must have already had reassignment surgery.
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Old 04-03-2016, 03:18 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Gross. To be fair I think people should use whatever bathroom or locker room they're comfortable with.

It's also about our shit governer putting the AG in a precarious spot. McCrory (r) is massively unpopular and his opposition in this election is Roy Cooper (d) the attorney general. So now they both look like insufferable teats over this and I'm praying we can elect whoever is running as libertarian, it's a long shot but not that much of a Longshot.
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Old 04-03-2016, 03:56 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geeno View Post
it is (about) insulating businesses from discrimination lawsuits, since they'll now all have to be filed at a federal level.
What sort of discrimination lawsuits are businesses being protected from, in your opinion?

Quote:
It's also glaringly obvious how the corporations/media is approaching this for PR purposes by referring to it as a hate bill and a this or that.

Without the help of the media, I do not have a hard time not considering this hateful or at least profoundly idiotic... especially if this is, as you say, about protection from discrimination suits (for businesses)... when you consider the wording of the bill leaves individuals open to discrimination.

fwiw, You'd be aware I've been following this issue for several weeks now, per our conversation about Charlotte several weeks ago.

Quote:
The reality is they need to amend the discrimination section of state law to include Gays, if that is what people want. Despite the stereotype of the region I'd call the people of NC quite gay friendly. I'm not surprised they weren't in there considering the bulk of the legislation was written in 64.
Of course, I agree..... documents are living breathing things and need to (in varying degrees of opinion) change to meet issues unforeseen (2nd amendment & Automatic weapons) and issues that were known but untended to (The 1964 Civil Rights Act & LGBTQ-persons)



Last, I'm glad you brought it up for discussion.
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Old 04-03-2016, 04:24 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
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What sort of discrimination lawsuits are businesses being protected from, in your opinion?
All of them. I doubt itll really change anything though since no business owner would see this as a carte blanche for firing workers. The law is probably going to get struck down or altered. Even if this is an at-will employment state we still have to create logs of detailed infractions to fire anyone at all because of retaliation lawsuits. It's part of the corporate culture now.



Quote:
Without the help of the media, I do not have a hard time not considering this hateful or at least profoundly idiotic... especially if this is, as you say, about protection from discrimination suits (for businesses)... when you consider the wording of the bill leaves individuals open to discrimination.
Usually this kind of legislation is preceded by some kind of high profile case of discrimination, this is just too out of the blue for me to really see it as anything other than political theater. Its something people have strong feelings about, but I havent seen any examples of tranny bathroom mischief or gay employment discrimination studies relevant to north carolina that would seem to make it appropriate to create laws (in either direction)
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Old 04-03-2016, 05:07 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Usually this kind of legislation is preceded by some kind of high profile case of discrimination, this is just too out of the blue for me to really see it as anything other than political theater. Its something people have strong feelings about, but I havent seen any examples of tranny bathroom mischief or gay employment discrimination studies relevant to north carolina that would seem to make it appropriate to create laws (in either direction)
I think the creation of HB-2 is more where the theatre lies,
and is why I originally likened it to a more radical philosophy.

I concur that I've encountered, in my searching, for any 'mischief',
in NC or anywhere else that has enacted pro-LGBTQ protection laws.

While there are protections for sexual orientation Federally,
there are definitely holes in which folks' transgender orientation may still fall,
and that is why I imagine the local gov'ts are taking it upon themselves to address.
I do not necessarily see the MAKING of the measures as a protest,
rather it's just looking to close holes in existing legislation.


All in all, if there is in fact no mal-intent..... the wording,
and timing of the bill could have been very different.
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Old 04-03-2016, 05:27 AM   #19 (permalink)
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It really doesn't help that the leader of the charlotte lgbt rights movement was a registered sex offender.

I also don't blame anyone for not wanting mixed sex changing rooms or bathrooms.
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Old 04-03-2016, 06:22 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
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It really doesn't help that the leader of the charlotte lgbt rights movement was a registered sex offender.
As I understand it, that person resigned.

Quote:
I also don't blame anyone for not wanting mixed sex changing rooms or bathrooms.
It's my opinion that people, generally, are weird about changing rooms.


Full stop.





As I've read, from the opposition, on opposition websites,
the overwhelming concern, isn't about what people/children might see,
if a transperson is in the wash/changing room...

It revolves around the perceived threat of sexual assault,
which doesn't have data to support it the claim,
and IMO, seems to reaffirm the idea that LGBTQ people are sexual perverts.


Except that it's it's 'only men transitioning' who will commit the crimes, that are mentioned in their arguments......
I've not once seen an argument where 'young boys' are in danger.

The bathroom sex-crime is crap point, which ever sex is involved.....
But, to me, implicating only trans/men speaks to the place of fear and misinformation,
that the majority of this argument seems to be coming from....

All in all the argument continues the narrative that Gay or Trans people who are transitioning/were men are perverts and criminals,
but Lesbian or Trans persons who are transitioning/were women are just weird and harmless.
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