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Old 06-20-2016, 02:47 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Brexit thread *this thursday live*



Best bit of Pro-Brexit propaganda I've watched so far.

Talked about it with the nurse at my doctors today. She said her parents were pro brexit but her aunt and uncle were saying stay.

I'm all brexit.
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Old 06-20-2016, 02:50 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I'm afraid that my people won't win and England will be done within our lifetime.
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Old 06-20-2016, 03:20 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Brexit is a fake revolt – working-class culture is being hijacked to help the elite

have no idea what the fuck this Brexit meme is but that was the first headline when I googled it so I default to not down with the meme.
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Old 06-20-2016, 03:44 PM   #4 (permalink)
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How can you oppose this meme?

Are you done with the Eternal Anglo already?

Is that not one of our greatest meme-foes?
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Old 06-21-2016, 04:37 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Damn Geeno, you beat me to it. I was totally thinking last night I should make a Brexit thread.

I honestly don't know how I feel about it, or have enough information to have a strong opinion on it.


On the one hand, you have the EU which has a harmonizing regulatory system for trade, social and environmental protections, allowing the free movement of the people, empowering Europe by acting as a bloc geopolitically, and organization for continent wide projects.
But you also have a complex bureaucracy and many unelected officials making decisions about all kinds of things that affect peoples lives. It sounds as if its difficult for the public to hold anyone accountable. You have the free movement of people, even if theyre not wanted.

And mostly, I feel that government in general tends more towards corruption the larger scale, and more abstract it gets. I.e. Local is easier to keep honest than regional, regional is easier to keep honest than national, and in this case, national is easier to keep corruption and waste free than continental. Consider the secretive dispute panels in 'free trade' agreements that give the tax payers money away or let corporations run amuck over democratic will.


On the other hand, you have the sovereignty of a democratic nation state, whos leaders can be held directly accountable for their actions because theyre tied directly to the people via elections etc, and should therefore be the ultimate authority in the land (my best argument for Brexit).

This is a bit more sketchy to argue, but I also feel as though the EU is a direct symptom (whatever good it may do) of the world financial elite's efforts to amalgamate, harmonize and homogenize the whole world into the system that benefits them and strengthens their control (one world order and a stronger global government preceded by regional amalgamations, plutocratically ruled).

Furthermore, it seems as though 'the establishment' and all the douchey, short sighted stock broker types and the shock ratings oriented mouthpieces and pundits are all screaming about how this is gonna throw world markets into chaos, and oh how we all will suffer for it, which to me makes it sound like a win for the little guy in my gut.

But then again, many Brexiters seem to be racism motivated, xenophobia motivated, selfishly thinking about their political careers, or unaware of the consequences for things like environmental protection etc.


So that's sort of a mish mash of how I feel, if anyone cares to take a stab at enlightening or correcting me.
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Old 06-21-2016, 04:42 PM   #6 (permalink)
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But then again, many Brexiters seem to be racism motivated, xenophobia motivated,.
As if there's anything wrong with that.
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Old 06-21-2016, 04:50 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I think racism is irrational yea.

I think there are good arguments for changing immigration policy, but that's not one of them.


I'm also assuming democracy and accountability are superior to the alternatives.
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Old 06-21-2016, 05:04 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Well it depends on what you call racism. The definition has certainly broadened in our time.
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Old 06-21-2016, 05:24 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Making assumptions about people based on their skin colour basically I guess.
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Old 06-21-2016, 05:34 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Do you think there's any situations where that's a fair line of thinking?
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Old 06-21-2016, 06:05 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Do you think there's any situations where that's a fair line of thinking?
There are correlations between skin colour and behaviour patterns for sure, however science has proven that those correlations are not based in genetics and therefore must be cultural. The problem with pursuing 'racist' lines of thought rather than giving the benefit of the doubt is that it works to support and reinforce the cultural conditions that create those correlations.
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Old 06-21-2016, 06:53 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I know you shared those links you once did... But I refuse to acknowledge that they explained what they indicated and I think their conclusions and premises were wrong.

Do you not see the incredible correlation between race and existence? Have you noticed that most professional athletes of specific sports are racially segregated? Theres overwhelming trends in certain areas of pure physicial competition.

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Old 06-21-2016, 07:27 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Sure, and I almost mentioned that. There are measurable genetic differences in people of certain backgrounds physical strengths/weaknesses (swimming vs. sprinting for example), but the brain (and therefore the prime determiner of character) is way more plastic and flexible and incredible than say body density.

Also this is becoming a very abstract way to make an argument about Brexit. Nit picking about bigotry instead of discussing the broader issue.

And correlation -> causation (lol) we're in agreement on, in that I am saying reinforcing cultural stereotypes based on physical properties (mass opinion and policy, if racism is rampant enough, will and has been the cause) will undermine attempts for marginalized people to become dignified and act in the way unmarginalized, dignified and empowered groups do (more civil etc, with a stake in a system that doesn't discriminate against them). Any statistical correlation between physical properties and say, crime for example, has nothing to physical properties and everything to do with history and discrimination against visual minorities.

Ending racism will be a long process, but it benefits all of us. And requires an effort to give the benefit of the doubt, or racial neutrality, in order to eliminate correlations until they don't exist.
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Old 06-21-2016, 07:31 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Sort of but the question i asked remains, how bad is racism xenophobia etc.

Do you honestly believe that bodies can appear in certain forms but brains are universally the same?

Is the brain not part of the body? I believe its just as likely to have its own tendency towards development as bodies.
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Old 06-21-2016, 07:36 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I know you shared those links you once did... But I refuse to acknowledge that they explained what they indicated and I think their conclusions and premises were wrong.

Do you not see the incredible correlation between race and existence? Have you noticed that most professional athletes of specific sports are racially segregated? Theres overwhelming trends in certain areas of pure physicial competition.

>brings up race
>tries to use the great american breeding program as evidence
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Old 06-21-2016, 07:38 PM   #16 (permalink)
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>breeding fallacy
>ignoring continent of africa and international african dominance in sports

What is the NBA, olympic running, soccer.

NFL, bodybuilding and pro wrestling - an odd amount of polynesians, tbh

Swimming - .
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Old 06-21-2016, 07:54 PM   #17 (permalink)
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You are cucked out of your fucking mind.

"I am can be racist because they are good at sports"

People are just people man, they do the shit they are good at, act like the people that they trust, and live and die like the rest. Who the fuck cares if you don't agree with the way they live their lives.
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Old 06-21-2016, 07:55 PM   #18 (permalink)
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This is about whether racism or xenophobia is bad or not, your response is not an argument
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Old 06-21-2016, 07:55 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Furthermore there are moral arguments to be made against racism, apart from or before even bothering with sociological arguments, such as the christian values of love (the opposite of fear) and grace.
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Old 06-21-2016, 07:59 PM   #20 (permalink)
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So is race or ethnicity a reasonable predictor of behavior or not?
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