seaflo

That's great Dan;
what's the EC and PPM of your tap water?
What is the temp and humidity of the environment they are in?
How long do you go in between changes.
How long does it take for them to root (time between cutting and placing in pots)?
What is your success rate (%)?
The best method is usually the simplest.

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tokinGLX

great thread, i do have one method to add, however. i love it because aside from weekly maintenance it is a set it and forget it type system. more on that later.

and now, zee bubble cloner!

here is the simplified version....
step one: obtain container, fill with water.
step two: place air stones/bubble stones in the water.
step three: put cuttings in water, preferably in appropriately sized holes in the lid of container
step four: wait for roots to show, when long enough, transplant.

with pictures now, and a video to come shortly
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rooting success rate is 95%+
every now and then there is just that weird cutting that doesnt want to root.
i change the water out and clean the lid cover(a strip of black and white poly) and container once a week.
i use tapwater with 3-5 drops of superthrive, have never ph'd/ec'd the water and do not use a heating pad. if i did do these things, i am sure that they would root a little bit faster. as it is, i am in no hurry...my veg and flower rooms are already full
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Dandaweedman

That is supposed to be the bomb-diggety alright, I wish I could utilize one of those.

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farmergiles

Quality, cheers Tokin, this thread needed a bubbler.

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Dandaweedman

I have an EC and PPM in my tap water? How do I get rid of it?

86 degrees F and about 52% humidity

I like to change it every 2 or 3 or 4 days... 5 at the outside.
If the cup bottom gets a tinge of green then I use a new cup with fresh water for the babies, and place that in the empty old cup instead of marking a second cup.
I'm cheap that way.

Anywhere from 10-21 days.

Unless I forget to add water and they dry out it's been... I can't remember when a healthy clone didn't go to be honest.
I have done the same thing with poinsettias, various vines, shrubs etc. Those I tend to scarify as it takes a long time for the barks/sheathing to soften.
Poinsettias will show roots in 4-12 weeks this way in a window, they are stubborn.

Sometimes, I guess it's just what you have room/time to deal with.
If I had the room to do it I would use TokinGlxs aeroponic method. Fast and it's what the university's use to clone.
Well, they have fancier equipment

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tokinGLX

video is up!

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Cerebro

cheers tokin, take it easy.

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seaflo

Thanks Dan & Tokin; I bought one of the "aero cloners" and made a set-up very similar to Tokin's (a DIY from Overgrow years ago) but never got the results I was hoping for; 50 to 75% success rate. I have sold the cloner and made the DIY into another storage box. My growing has taken on a new dimension with the use of Coco. I use it for everything and the ease (except when the strain goes nuts and needs 50 friggin gallons of water a day; of course that is an exaggeration build out of laborious nute mixing and bucket carrying), hand watering is a bitch even with just 1 or 2 plants. When I was a kid and found seeds, they always grew in the most adverse conditions and by way of the most rudimentary methods; got old, started wanting more and forgot that the easiest methods are methods because they work. This is why I like Dan's approach; throw the girls into a glass feed some water, if you remember and feel like it, and away they go. Good job man.

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farmergiles

Just to keep you updated, the clones are doing well, I`ve repotted them again and giving them a little training to encourage side growth. They`re growing so fast I can hardly keep up with them.

The observant may note that there`s one missing (they were cloned in sets of three, only two plants were female so there should be 6), I potted one up before it was showing roots and it perished. But the beauty of cloning means I still have two left .

See plant bottom right with the two upside down leaves! I`m not sure why she`s doing this, probably temps and humidity, it`s getting warmer round here. So I`ve turned on the extractor fan, that should sort it out.

Attached Images

 

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Cerebro

those pots are pretty, nice bit of training too.

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Dandaweedman

What do you do to make em look so good that early? Paint em?

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farmergiles

Lmfao, you just nearly made me choke on my coffee Dan. I dunno, these FTMs are vigorous rooters, I think they`re just making best use of what`s available to them.

Cloning in the propagator combined with the quick rooting time with rockwool means they`re in fairly good condition when they hit the dirt- so the old pre-cutting growth is still viable.

I`ve noticed if I take a clone from a plant suffering from a deficiency this deficiency normally carries through and will have to be remedied (usually pretty easy as the clone gets nice new soil to grow into) once potted up.

It`s fine to have all kinds of issues with clones; as long as you get them to root properly most issues (except disease) are easily solved later.

I want to be consistent with cloning though- so all the plants are at a similar stage. This should make things a lot simpler later on when the plants are flowering- I can get confused if I`ve got loads of different plants at different stages and with different issues.

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farmergiles

Time to talk about possible issues with cloning.

First up fungal infections. As already mentioned above hygiene when taking cuttings is crucial. Use a clean sharp blade, keep everything clean, consider using a fungicide and be wary of contamination if you`ve had fungal problems elsewhere.

If the cutting becomes infected this will harm roots and cause growth issues if it doesn`t kill the cutting stone dead. And once infection has set in it will be almost impossible to cure.

If you are relying on this clone for future propagation or breeding then that`s it, game over.

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farmergiles

Next up genetic issues.

Some strains clone better than others, some are very difficult to encourage to root.

Some strains exhibit autoflowering properties. Flowering is brought on by an internal clock rather than photoperiod.
As the effective age of a clone is its` own age plus that of its` clone parent; if a clone is taken from an autoflowering parent which is starting to flower then that clone may well refuse to veg, instead going straight into flower resulting in a tiny plant.
Edit- Indica or predominantly indica indica/sativa hybrids will almost always be well behaved this way, pure sativas may be less well behaved and you will almost certainly have problems cloning ruderalis (or is that ruderalii?).

People have successfully kept mother plants going for decades. However plants do change with age and many strains may well lose vigour as the years pass by. This loss of vigour is more likely if you clone from clones, then clone from the clones of clones etc etc rather than keeping the original mother to take cuttings from.

The area of the plant you take the cutting from may well have an effect on the genetics of the cutting. Ideally you would take a cutting from the top of the main stem as this will give the closest replica of the parent. Maybe others can illustrate the reasons for this, I must acknowledge being slightly out of my depth as to the exact causes.
It is often more convenient to take cuttings from the bottom of he plant as I did (see pics towards start of thread), it just depends how perfectionist you want to be. If you`re considering serious seed production from a clone it may well be best to take your cut from the top of the plant.

Really the best place to keep genetics going is in seeds, but of course you never really know what a seed is going to do until after it germinates. If you have a seed safely stored away, as long as you can get it to germinate the genetics will be very unlikely to suffer during storage (barring exposure to huge amounts of gamma radiation ).

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farmergiles

Another thing to mention. I know this is true indoors, can anyone comment on outdoors?

If you grow from seed, take clones and flower the parent, veg the clones and flower them then the results will almost always be better with the clones. I`m not sure if this is them adapting to artificial light but it always seem to be the case that the clones do better in the cabinet than the seed parent.

It seems that the simple model of genetics taught to me at school falls a bit short when used to understand plant breeding. A clone (or any other plant) will change genetically somewhat according to it`s environment- it does not just go with the genetics it inherits from it`s parent (s). In other words nurture as well as nature has an effect on genetics- even when the process of natural selection is not present.

Another slant on this- it has been noted that many Dutch and American strains seem to be lacking vigour nowadays, especially if grown outdoors. This may be down to a number of factors but repeated cloning of strains during breeding may well be a factor. Also the fact that plants are most likely bred in carefully controlled indoor "hothouse" conditions takes away the element of natural selection.

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Cerebro

I'm not an indoor grower but I still have an opinion, albeit not based on knowledge or much experience.
I get the feeling that the cutting that has been taken from the mother reverts it's development. It goes back to a fetal state as it recognizes its vulnerability. Energy goes toward producing roots as if it was starting again, it goes into soil, or medium, with a much better root system than any seed. This is a good start towards vigour.
F1 seeds show the outdoor grower similar vigour. I've done no work with clones outdoors.
The two main probs I've had with 'indoor strains' is bending/snapping stems, and susceptability to mold etc.

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farmergiles

Interesting. Once they get going clones do tend to show explosive root growth.

A note about clones for the outdoor grower. A plant grown from seed will have a tap root. This root grows long so as to look for water deep below the surface of the ground to help the plant in dry times.
Clones do not have a tap root, so could suffer outdoors in arid conditions compared to a plant grown from seed.

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Dandaweedman

Maybe it's becuse you have learned a bit on the seed plant and carry that learned knowledge to the clone grow?

I am not sure a plant can genetically alter itself.
I am sure that if you have a lot of problems going on and you take clones it may seem lik it tho.

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farmergiles

Yes there are many factors in a grow and it`s hard to be objective about one aspect.

Technique will almost certainly improve once one is familiar with a strain. However I swear in my experience clones always appear to flower more vigorously than the seed parent plant.

It may be that if clones are taken when preflowering shows on the parent, the clones will be a little older once they have been vegged a little, so they will be more eager to flower. IDK.

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